Changes in the workplace

[TalkInRiddles]

I've namechanged for this as it's potentially outing.

I may have the wrong end of the stick on this one but I'm not entirely sure. I work in academia in a male dominated subject.

For the last few years I have worked there, there has been a group set up to recognise and promote the achievements of women in the subject. The group was aptly named 'Women in [Male-dominated subject].

Since this week, we had an email around the department saying that to be more 'inclusive', the powers that be have decided to change the name to 'Diversity in [Male-dominated subject]' as it was thought that having 'Women' in the title 'put some people off.' I know many women who attended these meetings, I don't think they were 'put off' by the title as it was intended to recognise and promote their academic work.

I feel like asking who did it put off?? Apparently the aim of the title change is to encourage and promote diversity within the male- dominated field. But there would be nothing to stop, say, a disabled woman in the field signing up for it, nor a BAME woman signing up for it if the title remained the same.

I feel like women can't have anything that is solely their own to recognise their achievements.

I know this isn't AIBU, but am I in reasonable for thinking how I do about this?

Rant over.

This could go in AIBU, I think

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. It's as if men's whole way of thinking is "What's yours is mine and what's mine's my own".

When they say 'diversity' we all bloody well know exactly what they mean. 'Include men or you're horrible women who aren't doing Woman properly'.

Absolutely not unreasonable. This is getting fucking ridiculous now

It's not meant to be inclusive though, it's a special interest group aimed at women. No need to include anyone else who isn't in that category.

I'd ask what impact they hope to achieve by changing the name and focus, and how they intend to measure that. I'd ask if the existing recognitions will also be renamed, or whether new ones will added to increase "diversity".

I'm in two minds about this. I have difficulties with all women shortlists, although I get the fact that women need a leg up in male dominated environments.

My daughter is starting to enter this world and insists that she wants to be recognised for her ability and not her sex. She wants to be offered a job on her own merits. She feels very demoralised about the fact that women are set apart from men as this only serves to emphasise the lack of women = rather than do something about it.

The other part of me (the part that recognises discrimination based on sex and biology) knows that women need extra help and recognition. It's unfortunate, but true.

It is clear that your workplace is trying to kill all birds with one stone by lumping together, women, people with disabilities, transpeople, non-binary people and anyone who identifies as being marginalised. it means women will miss out in favour of other groups. your employer is just being lazy and seems to see women as part of a wider group under the banner of disadvantaged.

Perhaps the "Women in [Male-dominated subject]" group should tell TPTB that you wish them all the best with their "Diversity in [Male-dominated subject]" group, hope it flourishes, if you need any advice etc...
But you are keeping your "Women in [Male-dominated subject]" group, thank you very much, because that is what "Women in [Male-dominated subject]" want.

Your daughter, rememberatime, should and hopefully will be recognized for her ability. Sadly there will be some people who may discriminate against her because of her sex. That's why women have to discuss this and look at ways to redress the balance. Women are not "set apart" from men for any other reason apart from that. I must admit that I can't understand why she's demoralized by measures in place to redress the balance, rather than angry at the sexism that causes this to be the case!

@FadingMint I'm afraid I don't have that level of authority or clout. The email came from one of the groups co-ordinators, a female academic. Either she a)doesn't take issue with this or b) does but feels she can't disclose that publicly within our environment.

Either way, it's been playing on my mind all day and it's taken me til now to try and articulate my point in these posts.

I feel like saying to the group in my northern twang, "budge up lasses, there's a penis coming through."

I mean come on, the group was open to all and any females in the field and the relatively small bunch that there was were fairly diverse in the first place. We might as well give up!

Start your own informal group for women and stop going to this one.

TalkInRiddles, that's a shame.
In that case, I'd go along with TheCountessofFitzdotterel's suggestion: Start your own informal group for women and stop going to this one.
Surely, they can't force you to take part in the new group, and they can't prevent you from maintaining the group informally?

I wouldn't known about that. It may be viewed badly if we did that. Kind of like undermining the changes.

Plus a lot of the 'Women in [Subject]' meetings/events had University backing meaning that female doctors/professors were put forward for national awards and accolades.

You see, this is the thing that income most upsetting. This group, with the departmental and University support helped women be nationally recognised and awarded for their contributions to the field. I feel like that's been pissed away.

Is* not income

it’s to ensure that trans identifying males can claim their ‘woman’s’ role. Keep an eye on the small print, I guarantee ‘those that identify as females’ or transwomen, will be included.

My employer did something similar a few years ago. I just don't bother with the group now.

I’m going to assume that in your field “Diversity” covers everyone who isn’t a white male from a non-working class background.
So this group is no longer for women, it’s for all non-white-men. This isn’t a trans issue per se, but it is reducing quite drastically the focus on improving female representation.

@Adulthuman - it always was open to non-white men. I.e. females regardless of their sexual orientation, race, colour, or whether they are able-bodied or not. It wasn't inclusive to males for a reason.

Is there a crucial typo in your latest post???!! Aargh!!

Anyway:

So, you've had a women's group in a male-dominated subject area; and over the years, you've built for yourselves, as women, a satisfactory situation that encourages women's participation.
That sounds really very good, and encouraging.

And now - might there be people who would really, really, really like to disrupt that?

It is very well known in america that the primary way pro-lifers (those who wish to force women to give birth) has been acheiving their goal is to chip away at women's rights one little bit at a time instead of trying to attack the whole thing at once.

So they vote for reducing funding for Planned Parenthood, they vote for all kinds of extra requirements which are extremely costly to PP and cause PP to reduce services to women. etc etc

Chipping away is what patriarchy does, and they're doing it here. Unfortunately it means that we have to fight back, each time they try to take something away. I would talk to the other women and develop some kind of a response and action plan. Unfortunately you cannot just role over and let them get away with one thing being changed to reduce women's success because if you do then next month they'll be chipping away at something else.

There might be a typo though I can't see it cos I'm tired haha 😁

To be honest i'm getting sick and tired of this whole transgender thing. Not because I take issue with transsexuals, but because of the sheer amount of head-fuckery that's come in to play wrt language etc. for this cause. The whole debacle is getting way past annoying now. It's an offence to use everyday, common-sense language to describe a person and all these silly phrases have crept in, seemingly overnight.

I never in my life envisioned that something as basic as the word 'woman' would have any other meaning than adult human female. If it wasn't for MN I would never have heard of TERF or cis. I don't even know what rights the TRAs are fighting for as the whole movement has been jumped on by a complete mob of woke bros. I'd love to see data as to how many suffer with genuine gender dysphoria. On the plus side, my son had an overnight stay at hospital at the weekend and his wrist band said "Sex: M" and I took some comfort from that.

The whole world has gone bonkers and I want to get off this crazy train.

Sorry, that was long winded