The tide isn't turning. It's relentlessly marching up the beach.

[Velella]

Even allowing for the social media bubble in which I exist, I accept that there have been more articles and media in general in favour of a radfem/gender critical/rational position.

HOWEVER, much of this media merely says yes, there is a debate.

MEANWHILE The infiltration of trans ideology into universities, schools, political parties, businesses etc continues unabated.

Even if there is a pause for thought on self ID, what is not being challenged is the whole premise of transgenderism. The debate still centres around real transwomen and those who would pretend to be trans for nefarious purposes.

The debate needs to begin about the whole concept of transgenderism, or more accurately to what extent should and personal unverifiable identification should have ANY influence on law and policy.

If you can claim to be something as unverifiable and unprovable as the opposite sex, then trans age or trans race is not a leap. But no governments are rushing to embrace that.

We also need to show the extent to which most adult male transgenderism is driven by sexual fetishes.

This drags me down so much.

The question of law based on subjective and not even commonly shared belief needs more airing.

Really good point, I fi d that language v v helpful. You're not alone, how can we help you feel less dragged down?

Actually, I think it might not be too hopeless. Most of the conversations have been at the woke end of things, where the existence of trans people just isn't questioned.

But the more this gets into the public eye, and it is, the more people who couldn't give a shit about appearing right on will be saying stuff like 'well I identify as a cat' or a millionaire or something.

That might open up a space for some serious questions about unverifiable 'identity'

I think that more and more people, including me, are coming to the realisation that trans is not A Thing. Either you have a mental health disorder (right word? I'm not a medical person) or a fetish. That's it, really, isn't it?

Don't feel dragged down. I posted something very, very similar many months ago, so I do get how you feel, but can I encourage you, please? Since that point, I have become involved in RL campaigning, I have got a number of people to fill in the consultation, and others are speaking to their MPs, my daughter is speaking out at school and I refuse to be ground down by the bullish behaviour of nasty or careless people.

I know it's hard, but gird your loins, and lift your head. You are standing for women's rights, you are totally in the right. That has never been an easy place to stand, but you are not alone.

The tide always turns. It ebbs and flows all the time. But we are not helpless pebbles on the beach, we are women with voices, we can swim and we can build boats and the tide has no power to affect those skills.

Stand tall.

Maybe mental health condition is the safest term

What has been a huge thing for me, just today really, is deciding to abs trust my gut. This whole movement just feels wrong, icky, sinister - but I've doubted my instincts so much because I don't want to be prejudiced or narrow minded, or hurtful about an experience I've not had. But my gut and every pore of my body tells me this is misogyny wrapped up in something else, and I've decided to utterly trust that.

No means no.

psychological disorder? What's anorexia classed as?

Or you were told relentlessly through school and social media that 'if you are even asking this, you are probably trans'.

We have a nice but not too clued-up young friend who is transitioning. I've known her since she was tiny, and I am almost 100% sure it's because social media has told her that she must be a boy, given she's keen on fishing and football, combined with a dose of not wanting to be like her mother or to be seen as a young woman by a succession of stepdads.

If I tell her I don't believe she's actually trans, I doubt it would go well, but maybe that would be the truly kind thing to do.

OK, serious mental health condition. Which it is, if it leads people to surgically mutilating their bodies, surely.

trans ideology is grooming, pure and simple.

my daughter is speaking out at school
Mine (who is academically very clever) has been totally brainwashed. Sadly, I didn't even realise it was happening. She has a close trans friend (girl to boy), and won't even discuss the issue with me without thinking it's a personal attack on her friend. I've tried to explain that it's nothing to do with her, and she needs to look at the wider picture and political landscape, but she can't seem to differentiate! All trans people are not lovely, like her friend. I partly blame myself, because I've always been very vocal about gay rights, which I see as totally different.

I totally believe that gender dysphoria is a medical condition that a tiny minority of adults can be diagnosed with. But I do not believe there is such a thing as a trans child. Confused child, struggling to understand their sexuality & place in the world is logical, but I just don't get how a pre pubescent child can claim to be trans.
Also, now that gay marriage is legal-what is the point of a GRC? The legal fiction that a man can become a woman, has been blown out of the water, and I think the only way forward is for the law to recognise transwomen as transwomen. (Not women.) That is the ideal outcome imho.

Velella this won‘t be won or lost in the media or politics but in the real world. No matter what laws they pass. Like the Iraq war could not reshape Iraq as promised and sold to us by the media, this, too, will be unsustainable, because the people live with the real life consequences and therefore cannot buy into the bullshit, even if they wanted to.
The only question is, what damage will be done until they have to retreat, rails between their legs.

Tails not rails ffs

Mine too, FlowersandHerts It's why I'm so deeply enmeshed in this. I've spent the last year trying to understand her point of view, scrutinising everything to test my own instincts and make sure I'm not just being knee-jerk old fashioned or unreasonably prejudiced. I'm now more certain than ever that this is a regressive, misogynistic and profoundly dangerous movement.

I do honestly think that, in the wider population, once they realise that their instinct to be kind and progressive is being exploited, and that they're being asked to stretch their goodwill beyond basic decency to actually be complicit in glaring falsehoods, will start to withdraw support. I worry about the damage that will have been done to countless young people like our daughters and their friends by then though.

Absinthe Totally agree. I came very late to this, not realising the misogynistic agenda that was being pushed, as I was used to "traditional" trans people who just want to keep their head down and get on with life. In the meantime, DD and her friends have been totally brainwashed - partly, I feel, because they felt disenfranchised by the sexualised image of women in the media.

Hopefully the population as a whole is going through the same thought process that us regulars on FWR have been through, and so inevitably will end up at the logical conclusion that there's no such thing as transgender.

Yes there's a very serious mental health condition of gender dysphoria, and those who suffer from it need the utmost of care as they are amongst the most vulnerable in society, but their number is tiny and it's possible they are being hurt the most by the trans-jugganaut.

All the rest of it is just aggressive and regressive gender stereotyping, homophobia, and PoMo word salad.

my daughter (17) has a trans friend & a trans cousin (both female to male) - she cares about them both deeply & is kind to both. She is gender critical though - as are many of her friends. They all use the desired pronouns etc but none believe they are actually boys. They completely reject the whole born in the wrong body rubbish & suspect that the gender presentation is a consequence of other issues (ASD in both & anorexia in one case).

I think it helps that she & lots of her friends are gay - they recognise that same sex attraction is a thing, therefore sex is a thing, while gender isn't real.

None of them have much time for the enby/gender fluid thing - that's something for straight kids to say to make themselves feel special. DD thinks that the current cohort of 16-18 year olds are a lot more sceptical of the transcult than the last one was. I hope this is true!

Social media is such a strong influence - in the case of my niece I'm absolutely sure that tumblr & instagram have made her trans. They've taken a child who hates their body & is confused about their sexuality & told her she is a boy.

They disgust me just like pro-anorexia sites. I'm forever grateful that my dd has a very strong sense of her (gay) identity & has escaped this. I am incredibly strict about monitoring/blocking the social media influences my younger are exposed to.

The doctrine that young people have bought into is one of happy unicorns, glitter and rainbows. A world where people are kind and free to be whoever they want. Even now, even when my daughter throws the accusation of transphobia at me, I'm still reluctant to initiate her into the reality of Jess Bradley's lady cock, David Challenor's child torture, Aimee Challenor's nappies and any of the images and video clips I've stumbled across on Twitter and can't unsee. She doesn't want to know about those things, and I don't want to be the one who tells her. And yet, innocence and ignorance are why people are sleepwalking into this mess, which has nothing to do with the tiny number of people with gender dysphoria.

It is awful the way this ideology is entangled in LGB and of course gets all the good will people direct towards LGB.

It is so awful, so different, such a regressive movement.

So damaging to mental and physical health.

I am so glad I learnt on here about it - I feel I have rescued one child from the precipice and we are all now massively gender critical about it at home.

I'm afraid I feel differently about the LGBT movement now because of it and no longer see Pride as something I would encourage my children to go to. I see the seedy sex soaked side of it all now. I am encouraging my kids not to get involved with the LGBT groups at school at all now.

Yes there's a very serious mental health condition of gender dysphoria, and those who suffer from it need the utmost of care as they are amongst the most vulnerable in society, but their number is tiny and it's possible they are being hurt the most by the trans-jugganaut. I don't think it should be called gender dysphoria since gender is a social contruct. It is sex dysphoria as the people with this are dysphoric about their body parts which indicate their sex. In old money they are transsexuals. This is where the conflation comes from. Also the word "sex" on forms etc is consider too rude so gender is used instead and most people think they are different words for the same thing.

I'm so glad to be here, it's so encouraging to read all your posts and know I'm not the only one thinking this way. 100% to the unicorns and glitter and peace, live and harmony image, but the 'suck my lady cock' violence underneath it all.

We know when something is sinister, and all these young men loving their cocks and lipstick are as sinister as fuck.

The "trans" campaign should be for everyone to be free to express themselves however they wish in terms of gender markers in our society such clothing , make-up, career choice, crying at sad films, toys they play with as children etc. Why isn't it? Is it because it is really about males who are not gender (sex) dysphoric being enabled to act out their fetishism in public

I know this image is connected to Trump but how long before we see this at Pride if we carry on down this road? I'm no prude and freely admit to having kinks of my own. However sexual activity should be private with other consenting adults not in public i.e. in women's spaces