Oh, wise and wonderful women of feminism chat

[KipperTheFrog]

Please help me to compose a message or something.
I have a very woke Facebook acquaintance, who happens to be a gay man. He's inciting people to report fair play for women on Facebook for hate speech due to their "transphobic" post. Not sure which post exactly. A lot of people are following his lead it appears.
Anything I can go back to him with? I've never spoke up on my Facebook page about this issue as I'm too scared, but want to be brave!
I've been lurking on these pages, posting occasionally but learning so much from you eloquent ladies.

Sorry to be ignorant (and don’t want to derail) but what is a ferret? And then a reverse ferret?

Yay! Welcome back to rational debate, Guardian!

Quote: “But misogyny too must be challenged. Gender identity does not cancel out sex. Women’s oppression by men has a physical basis, and to deny the relevance of biology when considering sexual inequality is a mistake. The struggle for women’s empowerment is ongoing. Reproductive freedoms are under threat and the #MeToo campaign faces a backlash. Women’s concerns about sharing dormitories or changing rooms with “male-bodied” people must be taken seriously. These are not just questions of safety but of dignity and fairness.“

I read through the GIRES piece on the GRA and was really interested to note that most of the places who have made self ID easier are hardly well known for their positive approach to women’s rights. And Scandinavian approach is pretty measured.

Oatmilk Wikipedia says "Reverse ferret is a phrase used predominantly within the British media to describe a sudden reversal in an organisation's editorial line on a certain issue. Generally, this will involve no acknowledgement of the previous position."

Ah! Thank you, I assumed was a MN term! Whoops

Good to see the media tide is turning.
So he has replied to the person asking him to define hate speech, by telling him to "eff off" but has not responded to my screen shot of the leaflet.

So apparently its the message of children being at risk he takes to be transphobic. Where do I start...!

Perhaps point that gender dysphoric boys given no medical treatment mostly stop being dysphoric but often turn out to be gay. In contrast,q medical transition for boys results in a permanently childlike penis and loss of sexual function. Let him consider that.

I think you have to break it down. That trans people are protected under the Equalities Act, that it’s not the case that people are worried about the existence of transgender people, that it’s the conflation of gender with sex and the possibility of making it easier for anyone to ask the law to change the sex on their birth certificate without actually needing to transition which is causing the conflict between women’s rights and the rights of transgender people. A small minority of people might genuinely be transphobic but the actions of groups like Fair Play for Women are highlighting the issues and calling for people to respond to the consultation on this issue. They are not inciting hatred. On the children issue - the sad fact is that predatory paedophiles are known to go to great lengths to gain access to potential victims - our decades of safeguarding laws and policies are partly the product of this knowledge. Highlighting the risk of a legal loophole that such people could exploit (If it was possible to more easily self ID as a particular sex without making any kind of transition) is not inciting hatred it’s just sadly pointing out facts. It’s bad for transgender people too - that’s why the proposed changes to the GRA are flawed.

80% desistance rate.

Often caused by other mental health issues, family issues or societal gender stereotyping and pressures on young girls to look/act a particular way and vv.

Social contagion - Rapid onset gender dysphoria - 4000% in girls seeking help at Gender Identity Clinics. That's a 4000% increase in in the risk of young women having the flesh carved from their arms/thighs to make a false penis, and double mastectomies, and hysterectomy.

We should change society and dismantle gender stereotypes, not medicalise and change children's and young people's bodies.

How's this for a reply? I'm scared to post it!
But it's not transphobic to want to safeguard children? Transgender people absolutely 100% deserve equal rights. There is no section of society that should ever be discriminated against. However, that should not be at the expense of another section of society. Certain areas (toilets, changing rooms, etc) are segregated by sex in order to protect women. Women are at risk from the minority of men who would assault or rape them. We cannot know who those men are BEFORE they attack, so we segregate. Sadly, by allowing people to self ID as transgender we create a loophole for those predatory men. Example being Karen White. And that's without addressing the issue of the 80% desistence rate in transgender children, and the potential effect of puberty blockers.

It's good - but I wouldn't expect it (or anything anyone says) to convince him.

Arguing with v woke people can be like arguing with creationists, unfortunately. It's a belief system.

Your carefully and politely reasoned post will gain a 'fuck off, bigot' response just the same as if you just posted "WOMEN DON"T HAVE PENISES".

But bless you for doing it It is always worth doing for the lurkers.

Link to the guardian editorial too.

You reply is too reasoned, and there is nothing in it for him.

You need Prawn's point, and the rapist in a woman's prison. Maybe men in women's refuges.

And Muslim women. Something he will care about more than just women.

Oh it’s at 6555 now that petition, haven’t got my calculator and am bad at maths. How many more needed until... oh dear was it 7000 or 7000?

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Are there any links to evidence of the transgender teens growing up to be gay?

Try Transgender Trend.

But my personal favourite is:

Thanks. I've added a bit about transgender children growing up to be gay adults. I don't think I'll get into any further debate with him though.
pickle I'd already mentioned Karen White who was the prison rapist.

Ask him his feelings on the cotton ceiling and its impact on lesbians. Oh! And whether he'd fancy having sex with a partner with a vagina and breasts, because if the vagina and breasts belong to another gay man and he doesn't want to then he must be a genital fetishist. When he says no he wouldn't you can call him a transphobic bigot...

Because TRA logic.

His only response was to twist my words accusing me of saying all trans people are sexual predators. Not sure what part of my post said that. Me thinks I hit a nerve!

I am actually a little gobsmacked that the guardian reversed their position. Is it safe to say that the tide has turned?

As for the gay guy, I'd ask him how he feels that all the very young gay boys are being transed? I personally wouldn't argue with him at all, just ask questions and get him to think through his position. But... seems like gay men who can't see the parallels to gay conversion therapy might be a bit thick... or just really hate women.

Say you’re not accusing all men of being sexual predators but they’re still not allowed into women’s spaces.

Well done.

And now he's deleted the post!