David Davies and JHB discussing hate crimes and compulsory pronouns on Talk Radio this morning

[2rebecca]

He was one of her 2 guests this morning. I've not heard all the programme but if you go on Talk Radio Listen again at about 8.40am there's an interesting discussion on hate crimes and the GRA changes with a guy from Spiked Online David Davies and Chris Williamson from Labour. David discussed the fact that he and Venice and Graham Lineham had been accused of hate crimes. Compulsory pronouns were discussed and JHB got clearly angry and incomprehensive at the idea supported by Chris Williamson that people could be prosecuted for not calling any man who puts on a dress and demands female pronouns "she". "words have meanings" "genuinely absolutely terrified about where this country is going".
Chris was pushing the "it's like racism or gay rights" line.
The thing is gay people are gay and black people are a different colour to white people, where as men with gender dysphoria remain male no matter what they wear.

I always wonder why these people don't challenge their ideas by reading the like of Jane Clare Jones and learn why there is no equivalence of the struggle for gay rights and what's happening now and what the erasure of sex would mean:

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/26/twitter-trans-rights-totalitarianism-and-the-erasure-of-sex/

To me there is just no comparison. Whether a woman prefers to have sex with women or men affects no-one except that particular woman. Similarly the colour of someone's skin should not influence how people treat them.
A man wanting to identify as a woman has a huge affect on people born female though. It's more like me as a white person saying "I'm black too".
Gender dysphoria exists, although I don't think all TRAs have gender dysphoria, a lot are cross dressers and autogynophiles. A male with gender dysphoria never becomes female though although we might decide to use female pronouns as a courtesy.

It’s different. A man is gay if he is sexually attracted to men. A woman is gay if she is sexually attracted to women. Who they are attracted to is a fact. I can’t say, well, no you’re not attracted to men/women.
But if a man says “I’m a woman because I feel like a woman,” the fact there is - he thinks he feels like a woman. It still doesn’t make him a woman. Anymore than I can say I feel like a 20yr old woman, so I am one. I’m not, I’m over 50.

Just listened.

Chris Williamson sounded like an absolute nut job! He actually thinks JHB should be charged with a hate crime. He really said it out loud on live radio. This is madness.

Chris Williamson did not keep his cool at all. V V scary.

JHB was uncomprehending not incomprehensive. Wrong word. Basically can't believe people believe such nonsense

Here's a link. Go to 8.40am:

talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1539754200

Chris Williamson kept trying to compare the situation with trans people to the racism and gay rights. It's a false analogy and I think what we need to do now is to find short, memorable responses that demolish those assertions and be prepared for this in future. The fact that all Williamson could fall back on was accusations of prejudice shows how shaky the trans idealogues' position is.

It's about material fact rather than prejudiced judgement, which is never OK. No one is implying that trans women (for example) are inferior, but simply stating that they are not women.

It's quite bizarre how trans allies keep using the analogy. It really doesn't stand up at all.

This is the Chris Williamson who said this:

In an interview with Rowena Mason of The Guardian in late August 2017, Williamson said the disagreements over Corbyn's handling of antisemitism within the Labour Party and criticism of Corbyn's approach to the crisis in Venezuela were "proxy wars and bullshit". According to Williamson: "I’m not saying it never ever happens but it is a really dirty, lowdown trick, particularly the antisemitism smears. Many people in the Jewish community are appalled by what they see as the weaponisation of antisemitism for political ends.

Hard left is scary.

A man wanting to identify as a woman has a huge affect on people born female though. It's more like me as a white person saying "I'm black too".

Like Rachel Dolezal did. When people bring up comparisons with black people, this is the example they should be asked about. If they won't accept that Rachel Dolezal could self-identify as black, why do they accept that men can self-identify as women?

CW is my MP. My letters clearly haven't worked

In comparison with gay rights, it would be the equivalent of the legalisation of same-sex marriage meaning that gay people could insist on inserting a gay person into all marriages.

'A man is gay if he is sexually attracted to men. A woman is gay if she is sexually attracted to women. Who they are attracted to is a fact'

And it's absolutely something that you get to define for yourself because it's based on your own feelings. Biological sex is an observable fact and has nothing to do with feelings.

I am no fan of JHB but it sounds like she is doing great work on this. It's shocking just how very stupid people like Chris Williamson are

talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1539754200#

It's a very good piece, would recommend.

I have an 89 year old mother with dementia living in sheltered housing. One of the carers was transgender and my mother kept pointing her out as "look at the bloke in a dress, you can't tell whether he is a he or a she". I was asked to hire a private carer to supervise my mother at lunch time at a cost of £210 a week.

I actually don't mind too much as my mother has the money, has lost her filters so is frequently rude, has a loud voice and once on a theme will repeat a lot. I am happy to help prevent anyone, whether staff of residents, being on the end of her sharp tongue. But would don't really understand why action was only taken as a result of concerns about a transgender member of staff, when other staff presumably have to accept generational racism, and fellow residents have to put up with comments on their personal appearance etc. (One depressing thing is how nasty residents are to each other and about each other.)

Actually, lock my mum up for a hate crime. It would save care bills.

I can't work out if these people truly believe the racism analogy, or they're just being liars.

Why people didn't tell black people to say they are black and if they don't say they are black they've committed a crime.

Not only that, if a man can force a woman, by law, to lie on his say-so, to her detriment, it's a massive weapon.

Disgusting.

Not only that, if a man can force a woman, by law, to lie on his say-so, to her detriment, it's a massive weapon.

Yes, and if a woman says woman = adult human female it is a hate crime.

I wish people would stop with the 'identify as' and the 'define as'.
None of us get to define or redefine anything.

We DESCRIBE ourselves.
Using words that already have a mutually understood definition agreed.

The description is laid out first, and the word that matches it is second.

I'm of the sex that has babies. That's my description.

I'm attracted to the sex that doesn't. That's another description.

I use whatever word is used to denote those factual descriptions of myself.

The trans movement is the first movement to steal a word that doesn't fit their description, claim they've redefined it to fit them, and then refuse to allow the people matching the original description to leave, or to use any other word that denotes their own reality.

It's the polar opposite of the gay movement.
The gay movement said 'observe this reality. Recognise facts. Acknowledge us'
The trans movement says 'do not observe the reality of sex. Do not recognise facts about female people. Do not acknowledge them'

Race is a lot more of a ‘social construct’ than sex.

You can’t be of mixed sex just because your parents were one of each.

Trans ideology says as a women you accept and welcome your abuse or you would just be a man.

Chris Williamson kept trying to compare the situation with trans people to the racism and gay rights. It's a false analogy and I think what we need to do now is to find short, memorable responses that demolish those assertions and be prepared for this in future. The fact that all Williamson could fall back on was accusations of prejudice shows how shaky the trans idealogues' position is.

THIS.

Chris Williamson has lost the plot.

With that biased and illogical outburst, there is no way he can be trusted to hold his position as a Member of Parliament.

Chris Williamson is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/09/labour-mp-chris-williamson-reportedly-facing-deselection-threat

from the above link

'A union source said there was “real anger” towards Williamson in Derby and this would result in an attempt to initiate a trigger ballot.

“He is his own worst enemy. He doesn’t know when to stop,” the source said.'

If defamatory by implication. Suggesting that it's like racism and that people who name biological facts are like racists is defamation by innuendo.

@SweetheartNeckline
Chris Williamson is not my MP but a consituency next door. Thought you might like to know there is another GC MNer close by

Oh, flinty, a up me duck and thank you. I suspect there are a few of us. I have 3 very dear RL friends, plus my parents who are GC (and usually lefties) which has reassured me that I'm not going mad!