Guardian article on MPs concern with GRA

[Maeb]

I'm really suprised! I hope it's in the print edition too.

Transgender law reform has overlooked women’s rights, say MPs

Stephen Whittle is a prominent transman, who has been working on this for decades.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Whittle

He joined us on MN for a discussion back in April - a most illuminating thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3212371-Where-are-all-the-trans-men-An-Answer

Wow a half decent article in the Guardian, I am shook! There’s definitely been a tipping point of late and suddenly, they can’t ignore us and our concerns any more! Wonder if if was the Karen White case wot did it?

They do it deliberately. A long time ago I was a Labour Party activist, and one of the tactics of the Trotskyist group known as the Militant Tendency was to repeat the same few phrases over and over again ("Nationalise the top 200 monopolies" was a favourite), regardless of the debate. TRAs do exactly the same thing: "Trans women are women", "Nearly half of young trans people have attempted suicide" and so on. They are probably being coached - I don't believe it happens organically.

Yep. Clear and open admission of entryism into the Labour Party. PPs have been wondering how come there is such an influx of trans women's officers in CLPs. Here's your answer: entryism.

Stephen appears to think that Stephen can threaten the Tories into compliance. Why wouldn't Stephen think that? Entryism and threats have served the movement very well so far.

You be careful Stephen: the thing with abusive relationships is that the abused party often takes a long time to realise it is being abused. But once the scales fall from the eyes, there is no turning back. Extremist transactivism has got away with an abusive relationship with society straight off the Duluth wheel for quite a few years now. But scales are falling from eyes and we see what's happening now.

Stephen Whittle was the special advisor for the Maria Miller Inquiry.

The role of special advisor is an important non partisan and neutral role to help select committees get a balance of evidence to weigh so they can do their job of scrutinising issues properly.

Also, with my tin foil hat on: why was Talk Radio saying that they'd been asked not to provide names of attending MPs but the Grauniad includes several? Are these braver MPs who provided their names to the Grauniad or are they the ones the Grauniad managed to get the names of and are sneakily outing?

You be careful Stephen: the thing with abusive relationships is that the abused party often takes a long time to realise it is being abused. But once the scales fall from the eyes, there is no turning back.

^^this.

Yes LangCleg. For an academic to threaten society with the suicide of trans people in order to force us to accept their particular wishes is outrageous - and unethical. Shame on SW.

And the scales falling from people's eyes is very evident in the comments under the Stonewall petition:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

What if either the Brexit or the Remain side had threatened suicide?

They'd have been told to pull themselves together and stop trying to manipulate people. If for some reason this is a thing that must never be said to trans people, what does that indicate about their overall mental health, and why would any government base its decisions on the demands of people whose mental health, and therefore ability to see situations from a rational perspective, is that poor?

Stephen Whittle was the special advisor for the Maria Miller Inquiry.

And in that article Maria Caulfield said:

the transgender inquiry was focused on the difficulties trans people faced in obtaining legal recognition of their preferred gender and “didn’t really look at the implications for women as a whole. I think that was fundamentally flawed”.

Ouch. No wonder Whittle is on tje defence.

You be careful Stephen: the thing with abusive relationships is that the abused party often takes a long time to realise it is being abused.

From Sir Terry.

"And the trouble with small furry animals in a corner is that, just occasionally, one of them’s a mongoose."

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected.

And with one comment, Whittle has ensured that there will be more than women leaving Labour. There’s always a plus! 😁

I bet whoever is in charge of getting the vote out read that and sighed deeply.

Wow Lang, the Guardian 'outing' MPs?

Yes I thought it was about outing MPs.

The thing with doing that, and MPs getting abuse for doing their job is it might highlight the point and demonstrate a few things too.

In which case it might well prove to be counter productive.

We'll see.

Maria Caulfield is my MP, I'm one of the women who asked her to go and am grateful that she has. She is an ex Nurse.

I'm hoping our academics letter gets more people into that network too. This whole area needs careful, considered, ethical scrutiny.

twitter.com/NicholasHellen/status/1052238120912072705

Shocking moment this morning when journalists invited by @DavidTCDavies to hear MPs and feminists discuss #GRA issues @HouseofCommons were told MPs asked not to be named - for their own safety. @WomansPlaceUK @Transgendertrd @jameskirkup @Mermaids_Gender

Yes I thought it was about outing MPs.

Not just me then. Phew. I did think Talk Radio making such a fuss about not naming then the Grauniad going right ahead and doing it was rather suspicious.

Nope.

I question everything, and its a glaring difference. Its a simple question over why there is a difference and what the agenda is behind such an editoral decision.

That comment from Stephen Whittle is horrendous - not only does it sound like a threat, the use of the term 'pull ourselves together' is so dismissive of people who genuinely do feel suicidal. Mental health campaigners have worked so hard to highlight how damaging that kind of thing is, that people can't just pull themselves together. Yet, here it is, published as a perfectly legitimate statement. I'm astonished a supposedly reputable newspaper published that, even the Guardian.

It's the two pieces together, the implication that many/most trans people are so fragile that disagreement will make them suicidal combined with the idea that suicidal thoughts are something one simply stiff upper lip's oneself out of, that's so bizarre.

I’m just popping up a reminder of Ruth Hunt’s statement regarding women’s rights.

The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this.

The Guardian headline is Transgender law reform has overlooked women’s rights, say MPs

I suggest you ask Ruth Hunt - her answer would be "nobody pulls my strings". I have no interaction with Stonewall, though I do know some of the people on their Trans Advisory group, but they carry their own voices, and do not seek my comments. Stonewall does what it does all by itself. (just in case you are not certain, I am the Stephen Whittle you were referring to)

And to put it all in context; David Batty also asked me:

1. What is your response to claims by academics, including Prof Kathleen Stock, that trans advocacy groups have used their influence with universities (e.g. as training providers) to stifle academic debate about the reform/consultation?*

My Response: Press For Change works by making friends and not by making enemies. Closing down debate is never helpful. Prof. Kathleen Stock ‘s claim that trans activists are using ‘our influence’ to close down academic debate, demonstrates how little she understands the dynamics of our lives. The idea that we have the power to threaten any organisation, never mind a whole university, is just laughable.
PFC understands that for a few trans people, the things that have been said about us are so untrue and unkind, that they have said things in haste, which in hindsight may have been regretted as they have exacerbated an already very difficult situation.
As a community, despite what our attackers have said, we have mostly attempted to stand apart from the debate, and to maintain some sense of dignity."

We are still trying to do that, but the provocation is quite hard to resist

Stephen, you were quoted in the Guardian as saying: "I am sure there will be a flurry of attempts and suicides."

Do you not think this was an irresponsible comment? What was your motivation for making such a comment?

Stephen your comment about suicide in today's' Guardian is appalling. Not only does it come across as emotional blackmail, it also includes the suggestion that suicidal people can 'pull themselves together'. This is contrary to all the work mental health campaigners have been doing to challenge the idea that 'pulling yourself together' is a valid way of dealing with suicidal ideation.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making that statement, and the Guardian should be ashamed for publishing it.