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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I was going to put this in chat, but the experts will be here.

48 replies

Bestseller · 16/10/2018 20:04

At my DC's school the captain of the boys rugby team is a trans boy (a girl transitioning to a boy) 14yo. He's identified as a boy since 8yo and to look at him you'd never know.

There are a couple of things that puzzle me. The first is how he can possibly be fast/strong enough? The other is whether this is the same issue as men taking over women's sport?

I was inclined not to believe it when I first heard, but it's true.

OP posts:
doublethink · 16/10/2018 20:08

Do you think that it's the same issue as men taking over women's sport?

Original poster
Bestseller · 16/10/2018 20:10

No, I don't but I'm not sure why.

OP posts:
NotTerfNorCis · 16/10/2018 20:14

not sure why.

Seriously?

QuentinWinters · 16/10/2018 20:15

The first is how he can possibly be fast/strong enough
Girls and boys are similarly physically able until puberty.
I'm guessing at 14 this child is just on the edge of the males starting to have a physical advantage. They themselves have a slight advantage just now if they've been through female puberty so they are taller than the boys. I'd expect this to rapidly vanish over the next couple of years however

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/femuscleblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/are-boys-stronger-than-girls-before-puberty/amp/

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 16/10/2018 20:18

The first is how he can possibly be fast/strong enough? The other is whether this is the same issue as men taking over women's sport?

I think your first question answers your second question Grin

I’d be sad for the child but hopefully they haven’t had anything irreversible done. Does your son have any worries around showering, physical contact etc? Or am
I assuming wrongly that he plays rugby in this team (I am very sleepy!)

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/10/2018 20:19

My brother is a year older than me but I was taller than him till I was about 15 or 16. People always assumed I was the older one (I loved that, as you can imagine.) Sadly he then overtook me and got stronger.
So yes, I can well believe it.

ABitCrapper · 16/10/2018 20:19

I knew a girl years ago who was captain of her rugby team at school, and the only girl in it.
As per above it was fine until about 15/16 when the boys physical development just suddenly overtook
She was not trans incidentally, although gay. But this was"before" this trans explosion.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 16/10/2018 20:23

No, it isn’t, and it will be physically dangerous for the Captain if it carries on much longer. Which, guess what, is why it’s dangerous the other way round too.

Original poster
Bestseller · 16/10/2018 20:31

DS isn't in the rugby team, I've no idea what they do about showering.....what will they do about showering?!

It must be very difficult for schools to do the "right" thing in these circumstances.

OP posts:
Budgieinaberet · 16/10/2018 20:34

It's very easy for the schools to do the right thing.
They just need to remember safeguarding.
If they can't do that then they are not fit to run a school

hackmum · 16/10/2018 20:36

I don’t want to sound suspicious, OP, but this sounds incredibly unlikely. Most schools wouldn’t allow it, I imagine. Is the child on puberty blockers?

RiverTam · 16/10/2018 20:36

Of course schools can get it right. They can segregate by sex as per the law. It’s really not hard.

FekkoTheLawyer · 16/10/2018 20:38

Some rugby players are small and nippy. I assume they are smaller than the other players. Not sure they will have any advantage over born boys.

RepealtheGRA · 16/10/2018 20:42

My daughter used to be the captain of her Male team and able to outrun all the boys. Then they all went through puberty. Now she isn’t and she can’t. HTH.

Badstyley · 16/10/2018 20:47

I was about to say ‘oh, but don’t the rules of competition forbid this?’ And then I remembered... I’d say the captain will have to be removed from the team soon, for their own safety.

snizzer · 16/10/2018 21:03

So my 8 year old boy plays rugby in a mixed team - he is tall and they don't yet tackle yet.

I come from a rugby playing nation and there is no way i would be comfortable with my boy playing with a girl once they were tackling or past puberty.

I think once puberty is taken into consideration then it would be impossible for a school to allow this from a safeguarding perspective.

I think if it is mixed team then fine but at 14 years that seems quite late to me.

Sorry I also wouldn't want my son to be in a mixed changing room so how is changing handled?
Also given how tough rugby is I would not want my to be massive son playing against someone who has a female body.

Nor would I want my daughter to play in a team at 14 yo that had someone who had a male body. Fuck that - what about concussion which is a very real risk.

Where I grew up in NZ rugby teams took weight into account as you could have some massive boys that were young and you risked injury to the other children if they were just placed in their age group.

I understand it is still quite common for age groups to govern teams in the UK and this has massive implication with trans players.

snizzer · 16/10/2018 21:09

I should have been clearer I don't want my son playing against someone with a female body when he is older or playing tackle rugby.

I don't want my son changing with the opposite sex and how would this be handled form a school perspective.

I also would not be impressed by a rugby club that did not see the issue of physical difference as I would think they were not taking the real risks seriously.

For example a trans girl with a male body would be a danger to the opposition team.

A trans boy with a female body would be in danger from the opposition.

snizzer · 16/10/2018 21:11

Surely the right thing is for the school to consider the risk and safeguarding.

Men and women play touch rugby fine.

Girls and boys can play rugby but past puberty??

Barracker · 16/10/2018 21:15

When a boy competes in a girls team, the girls get minced.
When a girl competes in a boy's team, the girls get minced.

The common denominator is that girls get minced every which way when we pretend that sex doesn't matter.

Which is why transgender ideology is a feminist issue, and why it doesn't impact men and boys as negatively as it does women and girls.

R0wantrees · 16/10/2018 21:17

RFU do have a transgender policy which allows males who identify as women to compete (subject to case by case assessment which seems to be to allow unusually tall /heavy/strong individuals relative to female range).

There are also clear rules insisting on single sex rugby past a certain age. I can't remember what age but its on their.

FermatsTheorem · 16/10/2018 21:17

14 is the age at which rugby starts to be sex-segregated under RFU guidelines (my DS plays rugby). I hope the school has bloody good insurance and has been through the policy wording with a fine toothcomb, because if this child comes off the pitch with a spinal injury, someone is going to get sued.

DS is currently top end of primary school. It's noticeable that the girls on his team are currently among the tallest - because girls typically go through the pubertal growth spurt earlier than boys. By age 14 the balance will definitely be tipping the other way.

R0wantrees · 16/10/2018 21:20

On a previous thread a couple of posters described how they had stopped playing women's amateur rugby after having to play against males who identified as women.
There were injuries.

snizzer · 16/10/2018 21:29

Thanks rowantrees

Sex does matter doesn't it?

Recently before the big rugby tests are televised I have noticed that there have been women games played and televised immediately before the men's game - which have really boosted the profile of women playing rugby.

My rugby mad family has started to watch the women tests and they have really loved it - so has my son.

To think that you could be a female rugby player and have someone with a male body in your team or be your opposition.

It just can't be explained away.... sex matters.

R0wantrees · 16/10/2018 21:32

I was really surprised that the RFU didn't get this.

It's a travesty.

QuietContraryMary · 16/10/2018 21:33

"There are a couple of things that puzzle me. The first is how he can possibly be fast/strong enough? "

Doesn't that depend on how good they are? I know a boy who goes to a 'rugby school', he's fucking huge. And so is everyone else on the team, and has been from the age of 11 or 12.

They would destroy a non rugby school, just as my son's school a 'rowing school' would completely destroy a school that doesn't take these things seriously.

This doesn't tell you that much.