Americans "deeply alienated by "woke" culture"

[IdaBWells]

This is an interesting article from The Atlantic which discusses how confused Americans are about the constantly changing goalposts when it comes especially to the correct language to use around political ideas.

I think just as in the UK, politicians alienate voters when they move quickly on "woke" issues. Americans also have the same unease.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

Well since they still use the term "handicapped" and "Retarded" it doesn't surprise me at all. I've also heard them say "Spaz out" with no challenges.

It's a shame that showing basic respect and moving away from outdated beliefs "alienates" people. It's tough to give up privileges you weren't even aware you had, I guess.

I like the concept of an exhausted majority. Interesting idea.

I think the US suffers from a lack of class consciousness so that their liberal elite has even less understanding than the UK liberal elite has that the vast majority of working class people value social stability because they worry about precarity. The liberal elite, which has no worries over precarity, misinterprets these concerns as racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Some of it is, obviously, but far from all.

Langcleg that's an excellent point. Quick social cultural change may feel more disruptive and threatening to those in a more precarious position.

LangCleg

Yes! Explains a lot, such as how Brooke Magnanti can write (and be) Belle de Jour while those in a more precarious position are against prostitution due to people trafficking, people being driven to it through drug addiction at.

On a similar note, those who can function as drug addicts (such as Will Self) may be in favour of drug decriminalisation whereas those in more precarious areas would be quite happy to see a crackdown on those dealing right by their homes.

There was an article along these lines fairly recently. Don't think it used the term 'precarity' but it used the same premise.

Freespeecher - yes, this pomo takeover in the left is all about capturing resources and attention for the middle classes and has nothing to do with actual, material marginalisation and you can apply the idea to every area it promotes.

Materialist - it's not that different here but I do think we have slightly less of the extreme (the US loves its Manichaeism which plays out in more extreme outcomes for people) and slightly more awareness (Blue Labour tendency in the Labour Party, for example). I read this book and the dynamics and analysis of values in it were very similar to the UK. The previous government had a migration impact fund, helping to assuage the effects on local communities of rapid immigration, dropped by the current administration. Such measures help reduce precarity, which in turn help populations be more accepting of rapid social change.

And possibly the UKs wartime and after-war privations created a stronger internal bond that held for a longer time than any similar bond held in the US — though that might just be me being sentimental.

I don't think it is sentimental, actually. We did have a post war consensus, which held remarkably well even through Thatcherism. I think the financial crisis of 2008 ended it however, and we are now seeing levels of social fracture that approach what the US has lived with for much longer. Attitudes to genderism included.

How frightening it feels! With Brexit adding to the instability, I think our reputation as a sane, steady, if slightly boring-and-in-decline nation is completely blown. And this will fuel culture wars domestically. Likely genderism is just the start. I'm not hopeful.

We did have a post war consensus, which held remarkably well even through Thatcherism. I think the financial crisis of 2008 ended it however

We all have our own preconceptions. You could argue 1992 or 2004, being Maastricht or the 10 accession countries joining the EU.
All of a sudden the cosy 'post war consensus' became sneered at as being 'little Englanders' and we were supposed to embrace Europe instead of Britain. Instead of being the plucky Band of Brothers we became pawns to be pushed around in the game of Hesseltine and Blair's political careers.
These days it is seen as Neanderthal to want cohesion; it feels like you have to embrace every other culture in preference to your own.

Update: I wrote this before LC's 12:46 post. It's funny how we look at the same things and come to different conclusions.

Talking of books has anyone read this one yet? It is the longer form version of one of The Atlantic's most read articles. I read the article some time ago and remember it was interesting.

www.amazon.co.uk/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0241308356/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=coddling+of+the+american+mind&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1539471997&sr=8-1

Materialist also being in the states you will be aware that the younger generations (35 and under) and tacking further left. It seems as a result of 2008 they are not interested in Democrats that are center-right. Universal healthcare is particularly popular, when Canada is able to offer a healthcare system that covers anyone they’re tired of excuses. In fact my daughter who is a Senior is taking a government class at high school asked me to complete an anonymous multiple choice quiz which she said pegged me as “strongly Liberal” because of course there is no truly left wing party over here and that was mostly as a result to my answers on healthcare. The kids were asked to have their parents complete it I think to compare to their own results and see if there was a correlation. She said she also came up as Liberal and that the results in the class were that those furthest left were all girls and those most Trumpian, all boys.

Quick social cultural change may feel more disruptive and threatening to those in a more precarious position.

I am just irritated by this comment. There's nothing "oh diversity just FEELS more threatening when you're poor" about it. More accurately, poor people live in the same neighborhoods/shop at the same stores/etc as other poor people. So there's more interaction -- and more lived experience.

AND, some percentage of poor people tend to not have the nice polite manners as those of the upper classes. So you get dickhead from Nigeria talking exclusively to my boobs, and groping the boobs of the younger neighborhood girls, and then of course they do other sexist/misogynist/patriarchal crap.

AND, the poor people are not allowed to have our own experience and our own opinion. Instead, we're supposed to internalize the thoughts of our white middle class betters who tell us that we're suppose to believe that these recent immigrants are bloody angels so therefore WE'RE the nasty phobic-racists for objecting to what, is in reality, legitimately assholish behavior.

Please don't get me wrong, many immigrants are awesome but importing loads of sexism when we've already got enough? nah I'm good thanks so can we please turn off the faucet of importing more misogyny cos I'm already drowning.

I agree ohello
I'm not in the UK or US, but where I am the working class are the immigrants. They're the ones who emigrated from Greece, Italy, eastern Europe, Vietnam, India and more recently, Nigeria, Sudan et al.
Working class neighbourhoods have always been ground zero for multiculturalism, poor immigrants and refugees can't afford to move into posh, monochrome, safe neighbourhoods.
These people are our neighbours and colleagues and our kids' classmates at the public schools. They might make racist jokes on the factory line, but they also develop a grudging respect for the colleagues who have their back.

It is so disingenuous and patronising for our upper middle class betters to pontificate about phobias in the rough classes. It breaches trust in the institutions so families circle the wagons. This includes unions that have become too 'top heavy'.

But it ever was thus, the workers are always underestimated...

also being in the states you will be aware that the younger generations (35 and under) and tacking further left. It seems as a result of 2008 they are not interested in Democrats that are center-right.

I'm in the US and my 21 year old son and his friends - who include people from middle class, working class, and wealthy - so full range are leaning very very left. lefter than me and I didn't even realise how left I was until I came to the US. I sometimes wonder if Sanders could have actually won. They are really energized by what they see as the rule by ancient white men with the wrong values. My dds (slightly younger) are the same. These are kids who would have been left or right of centre or maybe even don't care much voters in another generation.