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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm waiting with bated breath for Peter Tatchell to show us all the evidence of attempts by feminists to threaten, initimidate and shut down transactivist meetings

52 replies

WillNotBeSilenced · 14/10/2018 09:39

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/14/women-claim-intimidation-silencing-gender-recognition-act-debate

OP posts:
ChiaraRimini · 14/10/2018 13:39

Fuck off Peter with your whataboutery and straw men arguments.

ChiaraRimini · 14/10/2018 13:40

(Sorry presumably those are straw trans women- mustn't misgender Hmm)

kesstrel · 14/10/2018 13:51

Gendercritter Yes, you're right, it is a very good article compared to what's generally been printed in the Observer and Guardian about this. Quite heartening, in fact. And I agree that we mustn't lose sight of the fact that trans people do come in for a lot of abuse.

Blardyblar

There don’t need to be trolls. Make thousands of people justifiably angry on Twitter and you will feel it, even if they’re reasonable people. Yes, I think that's an important factor in this.

I think these men are too arrogant and self-absorbed to differentiate between deep justifiable anger and bigoted hatred. Maybe not self-absorbed, but they've invested their self-image in being always on the side of right.

Budgieinaberet · 14/10/2018 13:55

I think it was on Woman's Hour a while ago that PT objected to Germaine Greer being no platformed at certain universities.
But we all know that TW are the most oppressed group in the universe.
I wonder if there is any proof of this.
Maybe PT should be finding out what it's like for a girl to transform into a woman.
The crap from boys and men.
Do TW get sexually harrassed from 8 years old ?
Can they walk down the street with out being groped ?
Get told they must be frigid because they won't shag any random guy ?
Does he believe lesbians are transphobic because they don't want to have sex with a TW ?
Would he consider having sex with a TM ?

PencilsInSpace · 14/10/2018 14:25

There don’t need to be trolls. Make thousands of people justifiably angry on Twitter and you will feel it, even if they’re reasonable people.

Yes this is true. Nevertheless Paddick is threatening to use actual quotes in his evidence for the GRA consultation - from an account with 6 followers and a profile that just says 'Russian bot'.

Floisme · 14/10/2018 14:49

I think Peter Tatchell is entitled to his opinions but it doesn't give him the right to shout down women. Furthermore when he shouts down women who are trying to talk about how they're being shouted down then it confirms their point and kind of makes him look like a knob.

And I am pissed off that yet again we're talking about what a man thinks rather than about the letter itself.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 14/10/2018 16:57

As usual, there's only one group of people being asked by Tatchell to show compassion and it isn't the group which has actually used violence Hmm. Fuck it. Peter - tell them to be nice to us instead.

howard97A · 14/10/2018 17:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PerspicaciaTick · 14/10/2018 17:47

A man complains that a letter about the silencing of women's voices isn't supportive enough of men.
Silly signatories, thinking anyone wanted to hear about women's opinions when they should have just signed a letter offering unquestioning solidarity with transactivism.

howard97A · 14/10/2018 18:54

I was surprised that Maria McLachlan, giving evidence against Tara Wolf for assaulting her at the Hyde Park meeting, failed to ask for clemency for Tara on the basis that Tara was one of the most oppressed and vulnerable people in the UK.
Maria’s account of getting punched in the face was, as Peter Tatchell might have put it, “one-sided” and “totally devoid of compassion for the suffering of trans women and men”.

theOtherPamAyres · 14/10/2018 21:06

Tatchell sounds like Donald Trump: the President can't bring himself to denounce white supremicists, and offends when he blames 'both sides'.

hackmum · 14/10/2018 21:20

Someone shared a clip recently from the Daily Politics where they discussed self ID. Tatchell was on the panel and he professed himself “shocked” by feminists opposing it. But that’s what he is - an old-fashioned misogynist shocked at women standing up for themselves instead of meekly doing what the men tell them.

ArcheryAnnie · 14/10/2018 22:15

Peter Tatchell is a man who has:

  • written a chapter of a book produced by PIE. (He later said he would not have written it if he'd known the other authors were paedophilia advocates.)
  • campaigned to lower the age of consent from 16 to 14.
  • called "courageous" the publication of a book which "challenges the assumption that all sex between children and adults is abusive".
  • wrote about the purported existence of societies where "consenting inter-generational sex is considered normal, beneficial and enjoyable for old and young alike".
  • wrote "it is time society acknowledged the truth that sex involving children is not always unwanted, abusive and harmful".

He also wrote (in the same breath as some of the above) "it is impossible to condone paedophilia".

tl;dr I don't expect consistency from Peter Tatchell, and I do not trust his judgement on any matter, and I don't want or need him on my side.

Note to MNHQ: the PT quotes are all in the public domain, and have been repeated many, many times, including by him.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/10/2018 22:37

He sounds like an upstanding chap who wouldn't hijack a cause for his own agenda....

Lower the age of concent you say?
I'm glad these two things are unrelated.

Redshoeblueshoe · 14/10/2018 22:50

How could he not know who PIE were ?
The fucking clue was in the name

ArcheryAnnie · 14/10/2018 23:07

Redshoe to be strictly fair to PT, the editor was the vicechair of PIE, rather than the publisher being PIE, so he wouldn't necessarily have made the connection. But also to be strictly fair about PT, the book was called "The Betrayal of Youth: Radical Perspectives on Childhood Sexuality, Intergenerational Sex, and the Social Oppression of Children and Young People".

I think if you talk about "intergenerational sex" and not "child abuse", then I'm probably not going to hire you as a babysitter.

(To be clear: there are no accusations that PT himself has ever done anything illegal on this. I just think what he's written on this is twisty apologist bollocks, and I feel it's fair enough to point that out.)

Redshoeblueshoe · 14/10/2018 23:16

But I'm assuming this was probably in the 70's when there was a lot of details about PIE in the News of the World, on a fairly regular basis.

ArcheryAnnie · 14/10/2018 23:47

You make a very good point, Redshoe.

Anyway, my point is that I have no interest in obtaining the good opinion of PT, and his record on consistency and fair reporting leave a lot to be desired, so I don't trust his judgement on anything really, which includes his assessment of how women are being treated.

Redshoeblueshoe · 15/10/2018 00:19

Me neither Annie [ grin]
I am sick of men telling us that we should be nice

Because

Well maybe if men weren't such a bunch of violent wankers
Then TW wouldn't be having such a difficult fucking journey

And natal women know what a fucking difficult journey it is to reach adulthood
Because of the aforementioned men !

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/11/2018 16:00

Non-trans women Hmm

Peter Tatchell
‏*@PeterTatchell*
I support both trans rights & women's rights. I deplore threats, intimidation & violence. The best way to resolve this issue is by peaceful protest & by rational, evidence-based ideas that show why trans women are not a threat to non-trans women

RetiredNotExpired · 27/11/2018 17:47

Interesting image (for certain values of interesting) Peter chose to go with that tweet.

I'm waiting with bated breath for Peter Tatchell to show us all the evidence of attempts by feminists to threaten, initimidate and shut down transactivist meetings
VickyEadie · 27/11/2018 17:49

"Non-transwomen", though.

Peter Tatchell will never, ever see what a raving woman-hater he is, will he?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 27/11/2018 18:48

I agree vicky

Cos I'll bet you anything you like that he doesn't describe himself as a non-transman

arranbubonicplague · 27/11/2018 19:00

rational, evidence-based ideas that show why trans women are not a threat to non-trans women

Tatchell and others should stop creating a false binary: unless they believe it's appropriate (tho' rather telling ) to create a binary in which trans women are at the top of the hierarchy of relative power.

binaries work by being both a) hierarchical and b) by defining the ‘inferior’ term by negation. A binary isn’t constituted as ‘X or Y,’ it’s constituted as ‘X and not-X.’ ‘European’ vs. ‘African’ is not a binary. The racial binary is constructed by white supremacy, and conceptually it functions around the contradiction, ‘white/not-white.’ So, to look at a specific instance, ‘Blackness’ is constituted by the white imagination as an inversion of the privileged qualities of ‘whiteness.’ (Particularly in this case, ‘civilized vs. not-civilized (primitive)’, ‘rational (mind) vs. not-rational (emotional, sensual, embodied), ‘human vs. not-human (animal).’

This whole thing gets into a right mess here, however, because the gender binary and racial binaries don’t map exactly onto each other. The gender binary is laid on top of the biological difference between male and female people. The racial binary isn’t actually one thing, because the ‘white/not-white’-structure functions in reality as a conceptual relation between ‘whiteness’ and various different ‘types’ of ‘non-whiteness.’ Therefore, you can’t make a straight analogy here.[1] The structure of the gender binary is harmful because it is hierarchical, and because it ties sexed bodies to certain types of acceptable social behaviours, but if we follow through on the analogy used here, what we get is the claim that the ‘real’ harm of the gender binary is that it erases the other ‘natural’ differences it’s laid on top of – i.e. that it erases the people who are neither male or female, which would be, actually, nobody.[2]

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/08/on-the-being-of-female-people/

groundcontroltomontydon · 27/11/2018 19:04

Another man being o so generous when it comes to giving away women's rights