Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

True to myself but..........

38 replies

quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:09

I am feeling quite bereft - I feel ostracised by my family as I have made my beliefs about womens' rights known and have been asked to keep my opinion to myself. I have fought for my daughters throughout their lifetimes and it has been for nothing.

OP posts:
Sarahjconnor · 13/10/2018 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GulagsMyArse · 13/10/2018 20:12

Oh I'm so sorry, I had a similar experience with someone who I am incredibly close to. Its so upsetting.

Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:15

Yes it is tough and upsetting. At least I'll know I've done the right thing though.

OP posts:
VickyEadie · 13/10/2018 20:17

Still asto

VickyEadie · 13/10/2018 20:18

Still astonishes me that so many women are cheerfully throwing their rights to privacy and safety out of the window. And mine, of course.

Serfisafleur · 13/10/2018 20:22

Keep going.
Maybe you phrased it in the wrong way? Maybe you didn't take a little-by-little approach?
Maybe you were too soft in your approach?
Keep going with the facts.
I find just sticking to facts is enough to peak trans anyone
Do NOT keep your thoughts to yourself and do not be silenced.

OnceUponATimeInAmerica · 13/10/2018 20:23

Irony is I am virtually NC with my family over Brexit. If I told them my views on GRA, they’d welcome me with open arms.

Haven’t managed to square that mental circle yet. Although I do know my DBro’s partner is with me.

Redkeyboard · 13/10/2018 20:24

Sorry that’s tough. You are absolutely right to stand by your principles.

Have you been to any feminist meetings? Lots of solidarity there.

Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:27

If there are any meetings within reasonable proximity I will most definitely strive to attend

OP posts:
buckeejit · 13/10/2018 20:28

I've been in this position with a really close friend that I've known for 25 years, (she made a comment on a rape case tantamount to 'what did she expect?') A lot of people don't know & aren't willing to put in the time to educate themselves-it's nice & easier to think women have equal rights now & we can do what we like).

A bit like environmentalists who do everything to reduce their carbon footprint, I know I could do more & try but I'm not in their league but it would do my head in if they constantly tried to improve my green credentials). In your situation I think you need to be adamant that you'll voice your opinion when talking about it, but in real life generally a lot of people don't want to hear conflicting views to their own. It's difficult to voice something that's wrongly seen as radical, the only thing for me I've noticed lately is to be less emotional when voicing my opinion & try to accept their mindset without becoming argumentative about it.

Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:29

Struggling to even relate to friends over this.

OP posts:
Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:37

buckeejit good advice, it is difficult when I am being silenced by anyone who matters to me.

OP posts:
Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 20:38

Thank you all for taking the time to comment. It is appreciated Smile

OP posts:
Sarahjconnor · 13/10/2018 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 21:22

Sorry to hear that sarahjconnor Tooth and nail is exactly what I've fought alone with, for many years, and for what? As you've experienced, total refusal to discuss.

OP posts:
Oldstyle · 13/10/2018 21:33

It's upsetting but I remember being a fervent CNDer in my youth and entirely unable to shut up about it which drove everyone mad and alienated people who might otherwise have been allies. So this time I've just opened up the conversation very gently and then let it go if it was clear that my listeners weren't ready to hear what I had to say, or disagreed. Some wins, some definite losses, some I'm still hopeful about. But everyone is still talking to me. Given how frightening and stressful the topic is, I can't be doing with any additional angst so that's ok.

Original poster
quietbutdetermined · 13/10/2018 21:38

Thank you Oldstyle I am taking your points on board

OP posts:
AbsintheFriends · 13/10/2018 23:06

Quiet was the argument with your daughters, or on their behalf? I have just had a world-shaking argument with my daughter about this. She's a teenager and I knew we had very different views so have tried to avoid the subject, but it came up tonight so I tried to explain to her why I hold the views that I do about men in women's spaces. She said she couldn't understand how I didn't see how transphobic I am.

Her view is that women can have penises. My view is that they cannot. She says that this changes her feelings towards me.

I feel shaky and sick and wonder if I should have backtracked. We've always had a pretty good relationship, but it feels like there is a massive chasm between us now and I'm not sure how to repair it.

Anyway - sorry for the massive hijack! I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone.

ContentiousOne · 13/10/2018 23:13

Teenage daughters will grow up.

I have to be extremely careful with my teen daughters. My transmasc daughter knows we disagree profoundly, but we rarely discuss because I want to keep the relationship. She is, however, respectful of me, and I of her.

My lesbian dd is just scared of saying the wrong thing. But there is no way she believes she should be attracted to penis. I support her not by talking to her about genderism but by trying to help her find community off campus.

My teen son, maybe gay, maybe bi, plays with gender presentation - he is currently on the same page as me. We can discuss it.

Most teens and young people will change as they grow older. They will develop the ability to see things in shades of grey. Mothers don't need to hide their views on material reality from their children, but it's OK to balance that with keeping relationships open and strong. With children I play the long game.

QuentinWinters · 13/10/2018 23:15

I've had similar in the past.
Womens sport is a good way to discuss this, Hannah Mouncey in particular is a good way in because most people intuitively understand the issues with a 15 stone, 6'2" transitioning MTF playing a contact sport against females.
With men, asking if they'd sleep with a TW helps too (altho my STBXH then though he might be a bigot for saying no!)
It sucks though, it's horrible being called a bigot for reasonable concerns.

AbsintheFriends · 13/10/2018 23:40

ContentiousOne massive respect to you for balancing things so well and keeping lines of communication open.

My daughter is, by upbringing and instinct, fiercely feminist, and I think this causes her huge internal conflict because of - well, the external conflict. She has a number of close friends who are transmasc, and to her the issue is hugely personal and emotional. My perspective is legal and political, about safeguarding women's rights, because of the impact their erosion will have on all women. Perhaps this is the generation gap - she sees a narrow strip of the picture in great detail, I see the overview. I have told her that l her that I respect her view, but she says she is disgusted by mine. I suspect that her vehemence is partly caused by a tiny glimmer of agreement that feels threatening to her values and identity.

Quentin I daren't even go there! My daughter has accused me of trying to change her mind by giving examples of bad things, when mostly it good people doing their best against terrible difficulty. I understand that this has been her experience, but part of being older is having a wider understanding. I'm still wondering whether I should have backed off and changed the subject though.

IAmNotInvisible · 13/10/2018 23:45

To anyone feeling despondent, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you all for standing up and fighting to protect the rights of women and girls most of whom you will never will know.

My severely disabled DGD won't ever have the capacity to appreciate it, but I'm fighting for her. If your relatives and friends aren't on board, take heart from knowing you're fighting for those who will never have a voice.

Oldstyle · 13/10/2018 23:49

Easy for me to say now that mine are all grown up Abs but to some extent teenagers violently disagreeing with parents is what naturally happens. It was drugs with mine and they knew better / I was a fascist. All you can do is exactly what you are doing I think. Be honest but don't push it, and keep loving them. But sorry you are having such a hard time. This entire ideology is so destructive / polarising.

Newsofas · 13/10/2018 23:52

I have two sons. Yet I will fight for women’s rights. And to spaces. I’m told I dislike men. I can’t dislike men as I have two beautiful kind sons.

Hidingtonothing · 13/10/2018 23:55

I’ve been looking for feminist groups so I have some real life solidarity, no luck so far so am trying to find a way of getting further afield as travelling is a problem for me. DH is broadly in agreement but not really up for much discussion, which is why I’m always here Smile