Never thought I'd post on here... violent male toddlers!

[Stellenbosch]

It's a bit sad, but twice this week I've seen two different boys be violent towards little girls. Both times their mums just brushed it off as 'they're boys and they're used to playing rough'.

Surely this isn't ok?

The first time, a boy around two got on the trampoline at the park whilst my dd was getting on. He rushed in front of her, so she was still climbing in. He jumped on her fingers and then, when she stood up bounced into her and deliberately pushed her. His mum said 'oops, lol, he's used to playing rough with his older sister'

Dd was very upset and clung to me and cried.

The second time was a boy and girl about four. The boy rushed ahead of the girl, pushed her over, deliberately, to get to a gate first. The girl fell over and cried. The parent of the boy apologised on his behalf to the other parent and just said 'boys, what can you do?!'

Surely this shit doesn't fly anymore? Yes, boys are boisterous but you can certainly teach a four year old, and a two year old, that it's not ok?

Please don’t demonise all boys.

But she wasn't demonising boys - she was criticising the ways that parents respond to boys. The whole point is that boys aren't inherently more violent, but that they are less likely to be chastised for it and that that has an effect on behaviour. There's lots of research showing the gendered way people react to babies/toddlers - and it isn't all in 'favour' of boys; for instance it's been shown that parents tend to talk more to their (preverbal) girls than their boys.

I read about this so often but have never experienced it in real life. Where are all these parents who keep saying "Boys will be boys"? I never seen to meet any!

“Some” parents! That’s the point I’m making. I’ve nevet tolerated any violence from my boys, ever. Yet I’ve witnessed them being hit/pinched/bitten by girls and the assumption is that it was my boys that caused it.

This kind of sweeping generalisation doesn’t help.

Boys and girls can both behave like this. The worst biter I have known was an extremely petite, pretty 4 year old girl. If she had been a tall, solid, 4 year old boy, I suspect her behaviour would have been taken more seriously than it was

A girl toddler pushing / hitting etc is more likely to be told off than a boy toddler doing the same thing IME.

I also think that a toddler pushing/hitting a girl toddler is more likely to be told off than a toddler doing the same thing to a boy toddler.

I wonder if boys have more often been at the receiving end of physical violence, so then are more likely to perpetuate it?

Boys are typically parented in a harsher and less tolerant way than girls - boys are talked to less than girls (from infancy), parents are more protective of girls, they’re more hostile to boys and show less warmth to them (from an early age). On the other hand, boys do show more physical aggression but then girls show more anxiety than boys. In general boys are more physical than girls, who in turn are better with social/emotional skills (how much of this is nature vs nurture of course is debatable). I really don’t think it’s helpful to label toddler boys as ‘violent males’ when actually maybe we should try to be more understanding and nurturing of them especially in social situations that they might struggle with more than girls. I do have quite a bit of sympathy for the ‘boys will be boys’ type of line (not one I’d choose to use myself but there is an element of truth to it) and not making a big song and dance over a bit of pushing and shoving.

I also think that a toddler pushing/hitting a girl toddler is more likely to be told off than a toddler doing the same thing to a boy toddler.
This is my experience as well. The only time I have ever seen DS1 on the receiving end of violence was when he was being hit by a minuscule toddler girl, and the mum just completely ignored her behaviour. If she had been a boy, her behaviour would have been viewed very differently and in all likelihood she would have been told off.

The feminist issue is saying boys will be boys. I have a very energetic 3yo boy, he can just about run faster than I can and keep it up all day. I would never say that if he were pushy.

Lots of defensive boy moms here I see. I also have only boys so I understand the impulse. The feminist issue here is "boys will be boys" and the acceptance of boy behavior that would not be tolerated from girls.

Contentious but shown in this thread at a 'low level' with the comment my boy child needed more exercise than my girl child (paraphrased)

DC1 was a quiet child interested in low level of activity
DC2 I have frequently described as like a Labrador puppy, needing daily exercise and clear boundaries to prevent destructive, negative behaviour
DC3 needs constant stimulation, lots of exercise and very consistent parenting, will not hesitate to use fists to demonstrate disapproval (despite never seeing this in older siblings/parents) and would be the child to push past others if not held back etc

All 3 have the same caregivers, all 3 have the same rules / expectations, all 3 have different needs

Does it matter which is male or female?

@AGrinWithoutACat it matters if you excuse their behaviour based on their gender.

FWIW I know what toddlers are like. Mine is certainly no angel!

I think you’re being completely ridiculous when talking about children at this age. ‘Boys will be boys’ isn’t right to say but it’s just an excuse from parents, in the same way ‘they’re just tired’ or ‘They’re a bit under the weather’ are.

What’s more of an issue is first time parents with ‘only child’ toddlers being ‘horrified’ by the behaviour of those with several older siblings. A toddler whose primary interactions are with adults and who have undivided attention develop different social skills to those competing with older siblings. It doesn’t make one right and one wrong, no matter how much those precious parents glare at you.

@Stellenbosch kinda my point

pp mentioning the male/female gender of their child in relation to differing needs of the individual annoyed me

As the mother of just boys, I tend to notice parents of girls who are around 2,3 or 4 are particularly overprotective of them. This is in my circles and possibly not all, but the parents tend to jump in when a toddler boy goes with a couple of feet of them, sening danger! (not just my boys either, my youngest is particularly shy and gentle and small for his age).
And tend to be more fussy over their clothes getting wrinkled or dirty.

Its likely that its socially ingrained thinking that their girls need protecting from boys and their lioness (or lion, the dads can be worse) instincts are to protect, particularly younger offspring.

I’ve only ever heard the ‘boys will be boys’ argument from bad parents.

We were at a zoo and another two year old boy ran up to my (considerably bigger) two year old ds and started shoving/hitting him.

Ds just looked at him bemused.

A flustered father ran over to get his ds and said the stupid phrase. I pointed out that obviously not ALL boys are badly behaved, my ds had done nothing.

I think some people use it as an excuse. I have brought ds up exactly the same as dd, hitting/rough play is not on.

I do think all toddlers can be violent...obviously haha. But OP what you are describing does seem to be a genuine issue. Male socialization starts at birth and, as unaware as parents may be, parents in general will socialize their sons different than their daughters. And even in the situations where parents try their best to raise their child in a non gendered way you have to think about what the child is seeing on tv, the actions of the people around them, the toys they play with. It can all seem so minuscule, but it does add up. Even at 3 boys and girls already have ideas in their heads about how a boy and girl are supposed to behave.

I'm not convinced that boys are more "active" toddlers than girls for any other reason than that they've internalized being active as more acceptable.

My female little cousin was one of the most rambunctious toddlers I ever encountered. And my uncle would always say "you act just like a little boy don't you?" to her. But one day she stopped, pointed a finger at him and said, "Nooooo. I'm a little girl." It was really cute.

I think you’re being completely ridiculous when talking about children at this age. ‘Boys will be boys’ isn’t right to say but it’s just an excuse from parents, in the same way ‘they’re just tired’ or ‘They’re a bit under the weather’ are.

It really isn't the same at all. It really worries me that so many can't see what the OP was actually getting at.