Anyone awake?

[minniebow]

I thought this would be the best place to post as it relates to men’s views towards women only services. Can’t sleep because of an incident that happened yesterday. My mother runs a women’s only sexual abuse charity that I help out with and their building is in our town’s centre. There is a little overhang with a place where you can stand that is there to distance the windows from the pavement that is part of the building. As I was leaving today there was a couple stood leaning against one of the windows eating a Greggs. The charity and what services it provides is clearly signposted on the windows. I civilly asked them to move as it was private property and they were loitering. The man asked why very aggressively so I explained it was a therapy service for vulnerable women and there was counselling taking place inside. He got in my face shouting that he didn’t care and should be able to stand where he liked. Him and his wife threw a fair few derogatory insults at me and proceeded to walk away. The man then shouted ‘don’t just stand there then’. Well what was I suppose to do, I work there There’s so much I wish I would have said but I stood my ground and remainded professional for the charities sake. He really tested my patience!

I can see this from both sides. We’re they on the street outside leaning onto your building (eg feet in a public place bums on your wall) or were they actually across your boundary and on your land?
What where the words you used?
I think they were just trying to have their lunch, and felt attacked and got defensive.

I want to be clear
Safety and safe spaces are important - so important
But sometimes we can make someone else feel less safe in the process of doing what we feel is protecting someone else.

I’ve been in a situation where DHused to drop me and pick me up from rape counselling, I was taking a lot longer (maybe 1/2 an hour) one session and so he had been stood outside for 40 minutes. He was leaning on the wall pretty comfy and then began pacing but I assume bored and worried. The PCSOs were called and asked him to move on. He was treated like a predator, and as my session was traumatic all I wanted was a hug and some safety when I got out, but found that DH was now waiting in the park across the way with 2 male PCSOs - that helped no one.

Anyway I digress - safe spaces are important but we can’t stop everything around us.

I guess you probably felt that them being outside wasn’t good for the vulnerable clients (totally just)

And depending on what you said, (you made it clear you asked them to move before explaining) they felt threatened/ humiliated etc.

In my opinion, asking someone to move because they’re leaning on private property feels like you’re asserting your power itswim?
You- business owner
Them- little people in your way eating pasties

Whereas highlighting that it would be helpful for them to move because of X reason and not just because you are a person with power is much more well recieved
“sorry guys we use this space for counselling and there are some vulnerable clients inside, would you mind giving some space, it can be quite overwhelming for some people, cheers.”

Ugh, I hate men like that. You said you asked civilly and then he acted in a threatening manner. This would make anyone feel rubbish afterwards, but totally the fault of the couple.

I’m not sure it’s even fault based (obviously we will never know because we weren’t there) but it’s all about intention and reception isn’t it

Ops assertive and I civil intention could be perceived as Rude, condescending,

The why from the couple could’ve easily been intended aggressively, or inquisitively or curiously, or worried

And so on - we don’t know what happened

They could be arseholes (sounds like it tbh) but who knows

I like to hope in a naive way everyone is trying to be nice

Sorry I didn’t word it very well! There’s the public pavement and then a large seperate walking space that is owned by the charity where the upper rooms overhang. I can see how it can be attractive to stand in during winter. It connects onto the drive that goes into the charity’s car park and there’s signs stating it’s all private property. It wasn’t raining and there’s a lot of benches in that area that were free. Women in vulnerable situations don’t need to be hearing people chatter up against the window imo. I asked really politely and wearing my ID card I was as professional about it as I could be. All they had to do was move on it really shocked me, I wonder if I was a man would they have reacted differently?

sorry I misunderstood your OP, thinking they were on public land and dopily leaning, and that you’d started off by telling them to stop loitering on private property (which as an adult human female would’ve got my back up)
I doubt you’d be confronted as a bloke tbh?
How are you feeling have you had any sleep x

When asked to move off of private property, especially when loitering, you shouldn’t argue surely? I don’t think it’s a police matter but the charity could choose to deal with it civilly. What if it was a client asking them to move and the male responded like that? I wouldn’t dream of behaving like that if someone asked me to move from their property or business, I would apologise and move on

Sorry if I seem stern dazed so exhausted I’ve just been worrying about the safety of the clients as the office is so central and exposed now. It’s only just opened there when before it was in an upper floor office so security was way more tight. I’m hoping I’ll get some sleep soon but the rain isn’t helping! Thank you for your responses

Hope you managed to sleep minniebow. I woke up really early because of something crap - nothing as unpleasant as you - it's my speciality, waking up at stupid o clock then ruminating endlessly over what was said, what I could have said, fantasising about how amazingly I could have dealt with it until I think, like now, almost time to get up anyway, might as well look at Mumsnet!
Sorry these people were such dicks when you made a totally polite and reasonable request. I would never react like that so I can't fathom how other people can, especially when you give them such a compelling reason. People can be shit. If it's something that's likely to happen again at the new office, I guess you may have to think about ways you can stop it happening again. Sorry again, hope you are back on track sleepwise.

minnie no of course you shouldn’t! I said probably quite unclearly as I too haven’t slept, that I incorrectly assumed you had asked them to move from a public area outside the window. (Which is very different to the walkway thing!)