Alternative Jo Brand thread that isn't a big fight (please?)

[PencilsInSpace]

From a glance at the other thread it looked like discussion had drifted away from Jo Brand and I wanted to say that I think she has spoken up bravely.

Here's the Guardian article

She's wrong about the both sides stuff and I think she might be about to find that out. She's just been added to t**f blocker.

Dunno about anyone else but the process I went through was:

'You're all a bunch of bigots' >> 'both sides' >> 'holy fuck how do we stop this?'

A couple of years ago Jo did this episode of Damned which was about a young lad whose mum transitioned and the pressure on him to be happy about it. I thought it was brave to tackle the topic at all and it was very sensitively handled.

I believe Jo Brand frequents MN from time to time so I just want to say thank you

I think it was great she spoke up and generally think she’s great.

Thanks Jo Brand

Context from @NothingTraLaLa:

I was in the audience last night - what Jo said was in response to a question from the audience rather than (I assume) anything she had planned to say. I actually appreciated her saying anything at all as the interviewer (Hugo Rifkind of the Times, who I imagine is well up on the subject) suggested she didn't have to respond if she didn't want to - presumably because of all the shit he knew she would get if she expressed the "wrong" opinion. I think it's heartening that she immediately knew what the question was about and the takeaway point for me was that she welcomed debate and bringing the subject out into the open.

I completely understand the pressure she was under, speaking at a very public event, in front of her publishers (who would not be impressed if she said anything to dent book sales) and answering questions off the cuff. It's an environment when you're going to have to be diplomatic.

I think many of us understand what it's like to walk the difficult line between speaking out and sabotaging your livelihood.

I completely agree with this and went through the same thought processes myself. I've become very fond of Jo Brand over the years and while I also don't agree with the 'both sides' thing, I think she did well to say what she said. I really loved her comments about GG as well.

It’s good that she commented, I do wish she had said more, I would like to know if she is G.C. She worked for a long time in mental health nursing, I’m sure she knows how to talk about complex subjects in a constructive way. It was a short article.

I love Jo Brand. I haven't read the other thread but I think we need more and more women to start speaking out about this and everyone will get braver. They can't attack everybody can they for goodness sale

In the circumstances I think she did well. I'm glad she stood up for Germaine Greer generally. Shes getting called TERF a lot on Twitter so I think she may start to realise even more than she does already, what goes on

I saw that PencilsInSpace she’s with us. She knows what the issues are.

I suspect that she's about to get a dose of the usual narcissistic injury that results when anyone disagrees with TRAs even on minor points, thus ending any "both sides" illusions. Whether or not she'll then feel safe enough to say anything is another question. Particularly with a book to promote and the publisher no doubt leaning on her.

I thought she put it very well actually.

They put her on terf blocker for that? Crazy they are. Pfft

Dunno about anyone else but the process I went through was:

'You're all a bunch of bigots' >> 'both sides' >> 'holy fuck how do we stop this?'

I went:

Don't be ridiculous, it's only student politics and I'm busy with austerity > holy fuck they've all got ahead of the law so I'll have to get involved sharpish.

I take your point, Pencils. But I think Jo Brand is well abreast of what's going on rather than being early in the discovery process. Her social work sitcom Damned had a trans storyline and a pomo-addled character - the treatment of both couldn't have been written unless she had a good and detailed understanding. It was very clever and subtle.

So, publisher wants aside, I wish she'd been braver. I'm sure she's GC.

I really like jo brand. I am sure she is GC - she’s too sharp and assertive to take any TRA nonsense. Maybe this is almost an initial foray into being more public about it... I feel hopeful.

I think it was surprisingly naive of her not to have anticipated a question of this nature given that she clearly already has quite a good grasp of what is going on. I'm not especially bothered with her not coming out all guns blazing, tbh. She's very good at picking her moments - the HIGNFY thing showed that rather well.

It's useful to remember that we all have different approaches - some of us are stellar political movers and campaigners, some of us are sassy actresses, some are scientists already plugging away against Anti-woman bias, some of us are lowly shop workers and cleaners who speak to people at the bus stop.

I'm mindful of Alison Moyet and the pile on she had, and while I don't doubt Jo Brand is made of stern stuff, she's still not going to relish the idea of a AWA narc rage en masse. She likely won't avoid it anyway just for mooting the idea of a conversation, but I can understand someone being reluctant.

As an aside, Hugo Rifkind is gender critical. He wrote this www.thetimes.co.uk/article/even-thinking-about-trans-people-is-wrong-xn2jdw9gw

Well I just ranted in it! Really glad there are two threads about it, one to rant in and one not.

I would just like to ask calmly and respectfully of either a transperson or someone who supports transgenderism a question:

What exactly do you think we have in common?

Truly, I'm willing to listen to what you have to say. Because respectfully, from my perspective, I feel like I have about as much in common with a man who says he wants to put his dick in me, and I tell him no and then he says that "we should find a compromise". I'm just not seeing where we can compromise on my sexual boundaries without everyone and his uncle completely ignoring my sexual boundaries.

I'll paraphrase what I said on the other thread.

I like Jo Brand and if she had just been a random celeb caught on the hop then I would have felt grateful she had said anything at all. But she was promoting a book which she has sub-titled 'How to do Female'. I therefore expect her to have given some thought to what being a female actually means and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask her to share some of those thoughts with her customers. As far as I'm concerned, 'They're as bad as each other' is not an honest or considered response. She sounds like she wants to say more but she's got one eye on the till - in which case don't write a book about being female. I'm still a fan but I'm disappointed.

Julie Bindel calls them 'cowards and capitulaters' on Twitter. I think that's harsh but if anyone's earned the right to say it then she has.

'them' being people who come out with the 'They're as bad as each other' line.