classic trans cult response from friend

[horizonglimmer]

Spoke online with friend about GRA. She is pro GRA. Was able to provide actual evidence to respond to her points. She said I had raised good points but that she was unable to discuss with me due to 'my views on trans people'. That is, I hold to the actual definition of woman as adult human female. ( I also believe in fully supporting trans rights but not where they cause harm, or unfairness, to women and girls, as one group should never be put at risk/disadvantage to protect another).
I pointed out that the definition matters as if you believe anyone who declares they are a woman is a woman you house male rapists in women's prisons.
I pointed out that it was not unreasonable to expect her to justify her redefining of the word 'woman' but she got offended at this suggestion (apparently her right not to say NO to justifying herself is important, but women's right to say NO to sharing intimate or safe spaces or prisons with males with penis's and sex offenders isn't).

I can't help but conclude that such people refuse to defend their newly created definition of woman because, deep down, they know they can't. I'm struggling to think of anywhere else where people just refuse point blank to defend their foundational beliefs. . It's a very manipulative and dishonest tactic to take.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

I can only think that they have boxed themselves into a corner and to reverse out requires them to rearrange their belief system.

People would prefer to believe that they have got things right, so are happy to modify what they believe to be right to fit in with what they see, so they can tell themselves they were right all along really.....

However, with this, you have to step back and say 'ooh I got that bit wrong' and then readjust everything that came after it to fit with the new reality. Huge loss of face. People hate to do this with really banal things.

It is amazing how far people are prepared to go so as not to change their mind.

it's that they can't fathom that there would be legitimate criticisms of them.

This. I keep seeing this too and it's what takes me aback the most.. Just complete outraged incomprehension that anyone could think differently at all. About views that 5 years ago, say, would have been quite ordinary. mean, I've definitely had "I can't believe what I'm reading! I can't even - Are you for real?" type things in response to what I thought were quite normal comments.

Where and how did this total indoctrination start and how long has it been going on for?

" I had a friend disappoint me very much with his wokeness about TWAW on Facebook last week. He's a gay man who would describe himself as a feminist. This whole issue shows me that he doesn't actually have a frigging clue........"
To be totally frank, it doesn't actually effect him. He isn't (probably) going to be pressured by a larger and stronger transman that he should be willing to accept him as a sexual partner and he's a nasty bigot if he doesn't. He probably isn't going to worry what to do if presented with a transman HCP for an intimate exam. He probably isn't going to ever be in a situation where a larger and stronger transman in a custody situation might make him feel threatened. It introduces no additional risk or worry at all for him, whilst accepting this particular religious thought system gains him lots of (I was going to say brownie points, but given the guides situation.........) points for very little risk. And since gay men have always been slightly dismissive of the concerns of lesbians anyway...............

Spoke to a female Tory councillor - 'you can't see into someone else's mind so you have to believe them. Hmmm - just like they do for people claiming disability benefits!

I don't need to, because it's not about their mind, it's about their body. I mean, someone can genuinely believe that they're descended from the Romanovs - doesn't mean they get to rule Russia. They can believe that they're a child (hi, Stefoknee!), doesn't mean we offer them a place at the local primary school. What if they rock up at the local hospital claiming to identify as a doctor? Do we let them care for patients without some sort of proof of their qualifications?

I do think that also some/ many people are just more stupid than we think is possible.

Because if you aren't brainswashed, benefit from the agenda, are frightened to be honest, then all that leaves is too incredibly stupid to maintain logical, rational constructive thoughts.

But we see that all the time with the decisions some people make, eg they have to appear on TV programmes to be told how to save money on food shopping.

I agree with the face-saving too melamin I would categorise this as stupidity too! Not knowing when to stop digging.

'To be totally frank, it doesn't actually effect him'

You're right SomeDyke. I guess I just thought he had more empathy for women , but he clearly doesn't. It just shows how easy it is to spout on about what a great feminist you are, without a bloody clue of the shit that women actually deal with all the time. I'm really disappointed in him. Maybe he'll get there one day

I had a long conversation with a gay male friend - he got it, absolutely. I was surprised, we were basically saying the same things. So I do not think he was dismissive of lesbian concerns at all, although I do not dispute SomeDyke what you are saying in general.

I think it was also somewhat scary, because maybe if he had been able to offer me some rational reasons why everything will be okay, it would be better. But there are none. And we both felt it was a conversation we should not be overheard having in our professional sphere, which was not a good feeling.

I have found that you have to focus on self ID. I think parallels with disability and how obvious it is that people would abuse the blue badge system help. It doesn't make you disabilist to think there should be some sort of validity check.

A lot of people have sympathy with those who are dysphoric and want to just live a normal life. I think it is a better approach to agree with that sentiment and show how they are the people who will come off worse.

PP asked how old my friend was, 46 I think. So no excuse for idiocy!

I can't understand why transactivists (like my friend) pretend to themselves they are making a principled stand by refusing to explain their new definition of woman (if my friend even has one, doubt she has). It is not principled to redefine over half the human race, refuse to explain or justify your new definition, and blank people as arseholes who won't accept your unexplained, undescribed new definition. It's totally kafkaesque - it really is!

Spoke to a female Tory councillor - 'you can't see into someone else's mind so you have to believe them
Well your Tory councillor is right that we can't see into someone's mind but wrong as to the policy and practice resulting from this. It's because we can't see into someone's mind that we DON'T believe them. That is why we have DBS checks, safeguarding, take up references, single sex spaces. All the rest of public policy and practice and law is based on knowing that we CAN'T trust and believe people just on their say so . That's why we have checks and balances. Why is this one area uniquely different? .