Too many women in powerful roles on TV

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

OK, so it's unrepresentative of reality, but what's the alternative? Not have women in these roles like in every TV program ever?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45803343
I firmly believe normalising women in these roles sends a strong message that women can do these roles to girls, women, boys, everyone.
Maybe it's a little like a show like Vikings having large amounts of female warriors fighting equally with males. Maybe not totally realistic but the alternative is another TV programme of all men.

It's such an odd thing to write (and one that guarantees coverage to its author) that I wonder if it's as simple as Daisy Goodwin having a new series etc to push.

In case she hasn't noticed there has been a few female Home Secretaries?! Well 3. Importantly 3 of the last 5. I get the argument but poor examples.

Oh this is a fascinating conundrum. Seriously. I really think that.

Role models good.
Having "real life" stuff that paints picture women are much more "equal" than they are and maybe leads to people thinking feminism done/ gone too far... not good

Women as perpetual victims= bad
Shows with loads of women psychos murderers sex offenders skewing public perception 》 women do it too... Also not good

Yep conundrum alright

I suppose it could be a concern that it fails to highlight how far we still have to go in terms of equal representation in the workforce.

But god, given how depressing things are for women in the real world right now do we really also have to watch tv shows just about white men as well?

I’m going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she’s coming from a good place, but I think she’s wrong. As Mercurio pointed out, all those roles have been, or currently are, held by women. The head of the Met, of the London Fire Brigade and the London Ambulance are all women. Until pretty recently both the Home Secretary and the PM were women, and of course Stella Rimmington was head of MI5. I‘ve attached a neat comment from JM which I CBA to retype.

I think this is a version of the phenomenon whereby if women take up more than 1/3 of the airtime they’re seen to be monopolising it. Bodyguard had a shedload of powerful male characters: whip, PMs, head of MI5, bomb disposal officer, senior investigating cop, and of course the protagonist, but because nearly half of the roles were played by women then suddenly it’s a crisis of over representation.

Well exactly, women have and do have these roles.
I suppose the other danger is, people might think equality is solved.

I absolutely love watching programmes full of strong women. I really enjoyed killing Eve because I thought the main female characters in that were so excellent.

I don't see the problem personally. We need the balance to be shifted over and if people see on television women in these powerful roles than they are more likely to accept them in real life.

Women in powerful roles in sci-fi are good because they represent what should and could happen.

Well exactly, women have and do have these roles. I suppose the other danger is, people might think equality is solved.

I didn't think at all that there were too many women on the Bodyguard etc, any more than usual or I would expect. Maybe in the firearms dept, but otherwise I didn't think it remarkable. Idiots and misogynists will always put their own spin on it no matter what.

I agree, women do have these roles, and have had these roles but yes it is a conundrum, as it isn't equal across all walks of life, or even across all the organisation as a whole even, eg in Killing Eve etc.

Obviously we cannot go back to having hardly women on TV, so the key is finding stories that are able to show the nuance and challenges for women as a natural part of the story. I think Mercurio does a great job with his shows, the writing comes across as convincing.

What is interesting to me though is that many of the strong women characters tend to be the same well known actresses over and over. Eg in the Bodyguard, and i don't think this helps. Not so much Keely Hawes as the lead as you would expect it, but the other heads of dept were all well known faces that have been in similar roles before.

Perhaps it is the lack of character development time that made me feel it was a bit generic to see them again, maybe that gave some sense of over familiarity with these same actresses, and maybe that made someone say there were too many women.

Less well known actresses or greater contrasts in the casting between the police heads might have felt more individual or less obvious perhaps. But I don't think the Bodyguard is up there with Line of Duty or other shows by any means.

I didn't read the article as complaining that there were too many women in powerful roles on TV but that the way they were portrayed failed to show how hard it was for them to get there and how their journeys (and their reality in the role) would be different from a man. The shows make it seem like a woman just has to be good at her job, whereas the reality is that a woman has to be good at her job and deal with sexism.

But isnt the point of entertainment to see something made up? I agree that women have done quite well in high up jobs, but the last thing I would want to see if I were to switch on a telly would be men threatening women with rape for daring to speak.

I can see the point that it gives people the wrong impression of how easy it is for women (and therefore why they might need laws to protect them from sex discrimination or why there is a pay gap). TV is often escapist, but not all of it should be escapist in the same way.

I agree with her in a way.

The problem is that the media only sees women as interesting enough to tell stories about when they are doing the jobs that men do.

Yes, that's a huge problem, Ifyou.

rita you’re right! That’s a massive lightbulb moment for me!

Haha thanks Golden. I never thought I was wise enough to give lightbulb moments! Especially before 7 in the morning.

That's funny as I was just thinking the other evening that the last few dramas I have watched have featured black women senior police detectives and barristers. It doesn't seem reflective of reality. Wishful thinking, virtue signalling or air brushing? I don't know.

The problem is that the media only sees women as interesting enough to tell stories about when they are doing the jobs that men do.

Again the other alternative is that the woman is there because she's a plot point - the interesting thing about the character is that she's a woman, rather than just normalising women in these roles.
Same applies to people of colour or disabled.
I think it's more normalising if a character is in a wheelchair and it's never mentioned.
There is a place for "issues" stories too of course.

I would say a bit of normalisation is a good thing but not to the point where it's unbelievable or to the point that it looks like feminism has won, and we can all go home.

It's such a tricky one, because yes of course you want to show the problems that women face in positions of power but at the same time too much of a social message will lead to a backlash.

Again the other alternative is that the woman is there because she's a plot point.

I don't think that's the alternative. An alternative could be to have mainstream dramas and movies that included substantial and pivotal parts for women that reflect the jobs that they have tended to dominate - carer, teaching, nursing, stay at home mum, cleaning, etc.shop work.

Nursing sometimes gets that treatment, but the others are normally only covered in media aimed at women rather than general audiences.

for me the important thing is that having women in a large chunk of the main roles makes a show that I want to watch. It’s interesting to me, and I don’t want to nitpick about if it’s been done right. We’re letting perfect be the enemy of good.

The vast majority of everyone - male and female alike- will never be a home secretary or a senior police officer and thankfully not a suicide bomber either, so I don’t think realism and the ability to identtify is the be all and end all.

I don’t think we always have to show women struggling with sexism either, I’m cool if for the purposes of drama we pretend it doesn’t happen because christ knows it’s not like I need reminded - my job does that

I liked the fact that Bodyguard balanced the female characters whose sex was relevant to the plot (Julia, the wife, the bomber, and to a lesser extent Chanel the intern), with a decent sprinkling of characters which could have been either male or female but they simply chose to cast a woman (Gina McKee, Mrs Brittas, female PPO, shooty train cop, sceptical cop Louise).

Mrs Brittas

I couldn't help that either

Errol massive thumbs up to sci fi comment.

That as well has to be balanced with the fact that a lot of mainstream sci fi is nog standard male fantasy or written by people with no imagination or interest in exploring how things could be... women are sexy, controlled by violence, frequently prostituted , rape is a constant threat and there's a strip bar on every corner.

Depressing.

Guessing you're a star trek fan, me too :) Roddenberry may have been a bit of a dick in his personal life, but his vision of the future and a better version of humanity was revolutionary.

I read this article and was a bit about it. It's kind of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' - don't put women in high ranking roles to be realistic, get complaints that you're being sexist; cast women in high ranking roles and then get complaints that it's unrealistic.

But we DO have women in high ranking roles - Teresa May, whatever one thinks of her, is an actual, vagina-toting woman. As is Cressida Dick, Amber Rudd, Nicola Sturgeon, Angela Merkel etc etc. Not as many as men obviously but it's not particularly unusual these days. And it mostly goes uncommented on. Great.

I loved Killing Eve for the even balance of male and female characters (yes lots of familiar faces but so we're the men) and the way that Villanella was not controllable by the men who underestimated her because of her sex. Jodie Comer was just incredible, as was Sandra Oh.