Girl Guiding can’t explain why girls and boys should sleep separately

[LemonJello]

This is a record of correspondence I have had with Girl Guiding.

I’ll do my emails in italics and their replies in bold.

I just had a question about one of your policies.

You say here ^www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/events-and-going-away/going-on-residentials/^

“If male volunteers or male children are present, there must be separate sleeping and bathroom facilities for them.”

Can you tell me why? What is the reasoning behind this policy?

In response to your enquiry, our guidance is in place to maintain our girl only space. Please be advised that this isn’t a policy but is best practice guidance that we have in place.

When girls are at a residential, the time with other girls is extended to their sleeping arrangements so that they can continue to have the fun, girl only experience that Girlguiding offers.

So can I ask, if guide leaders bring their boy children on a residential, are these boys forbidden to take part in the actuvities as well, in order to maintain this girl only space?

In order for us to answer your queries as effectively as possible and ensure that we don’t provide you with any inaccurate information please can you provide us with the full details of the situation you are querying?

Sure. I would like to know if the only reason for separating boys and girls sleeping accommodation is to preserve “the fun, girl only experience” or if there are any other reasons behind this.

I’d also like to kmow, if the aim is to preserve the fun, girl only experience, whether boys are permitted to take part in any activities, or if its just the sleeping accommodation that needs to be fun and girl only. If so, why?

Please be advised that the primary reason for having separate accommodation for boys on trips and residentials is because the boys concerned would not be members of Girlguiding.

We appreciate that there are a number of different reasons why a volunteer would need to take their child on a residential even though they are not a part of Girlguiding and we would expect any such situation to be discussed locally with the local commissioner well in advance of any residential taking place.

The parent of the non-member would also be responsible for them on the trip and would not be counted in the adult child ratios.

Children that are not part of Girlguiding are also able to take part in activities if this has been agreed in advance with the leadership team and the commissioner. However this must be managed appropriately. In such situations the parent of the visiting child would be responsible for supervising their child at all times.

I’m sorry I still dont quite understand.

On your website it says:

“If male volunteers or male children are present, there must be separate sleeping and bathroom facilities for them.”

If the reason for separate sleeping accommodation is because they are not members of girl guiding, why single out male children here? Would this policy not also apply to female children of guide leaders?

So to recap, so far you have said that the reason for separate sleeping accommodation is to protect the fun, girl only environment, but also because boys are not members of girl guiding.

If you allow male children to take part in activities, but one of the reasons they are not to share sleeping accommodation is to protect the fun, girl only environment, why is this environment only important when children are undressing or sleeping?
Are you happy to state finally that the only reasons Girl Guiding have for separating male and female children in sleeping accommodation are to protect the fun, girl only environment and because boys wouldnt be members of Girll Guiding? Or is there anything more ypu can add to help explain this policy?

I also see that you include male children in your risk assesmemt for residentials.

The reasons you have given to me so far dont present any risk, so could you expand on why you specifically include males on your risk assessments?

I appreciate that this can be a confusing area and I’m sorry that I haven’t been able to answer all of your questions regarding this situation.

I would encourage you to speak to your daughter’s unit leader or local commissioner about your outstanding concerns as local guiding will be able to provide you with detailed information about our usual processes for non members attending residentials.

Thank you for contacting Girlguiding and I hope that your remaining questions can be fully answered locally.

The End.

Way to bottle it and pass the buck

GG, not you BTW

Jesus Christ.

Why do the NSPCC advise single sex sleeping arrangements after a certain age then girl Guiding?

So go ask the volunteers on the ground then, make it their problem? Such amazing, strong and clear leadership there GG.

So much dancing around and book passing so they don’t have to contradict their own disgraceful safeguarding guidance.

NSPCC don't think girls matter either

🤯

They won't explain it will they because the inevitable result is "so if I stick a dress on my ds...."

They know. But they won't talk about safe guarding or product because that leaves them in the shit

Privicy

Not sure why it auto corrected to product

I hate to break it to you but NSPCC also can’t state explicitly why boys and girls should sleep separately, although they do hint that it is about safety and comfort.

They say:

There is currently no law in the United Kingdom about children of different genders sharing a bedroom. However, as you state, our recommendation is that children of the opposite sex over the age of 10 do not share a room.

We believe that it is important to make sure children are safe and comfortable whether they're sleeping at home or staying somewhere else. The government guidance for housing benefit states that 2 children under 10 (regardless of sex) are expected to share a bedroom so our advice is that beyond this age, children of different sexes should not share a room.

They know. But they won't talk about safe guarding or product because that leaves them in the shit

Yes.

Yes, they know exactly why. But they also know why you're asking and they know if they actually answer the question they're leaving their goal wide open.

Very cowardly of them to double down rather than admitting they've made a huge mistake.

They know exactly why you're asking and they know exactly what the answer should be. That they refuse to answer means they know what a pile of 'oh my god, this is going to blow up in their faces big-style' shit their policy now is.

The GG position totally undermines the justification for any boy being excluded from GG. Maintaining a “fun environment” could not be a justification under the EA for discriminating against boys regarding membership of GG. This is so poorly thought through.

So they won't tell you and refer you back to local volunteers for answers.....but local volunteers ask them the same questions and they get dismissed from GG!

Thing is there's really only the two reasons boys and girls are kept separate at school on trips . Three if you count false allegations. Which is why male teachers only knock they don't enter (and of they do they announce /warn/ check everyone decent) in the girls dorms/rooms.

Without using thise reasons you are going to sound like bumbling idiots

As they have done

I'm getting "let's run this past the legal team so it can't be used against us later" vibes.

You need new lawyers, GG.

But, LemonJello, at least NSPCC pin it down on sex. Maybe someone should ask GG, if their requirement to exclude accompanying boys from sleeping arrangements is the NSPCC recommendation. And if and how GG believe children can change sex.

So it’s a confusing “area” and they are the leadership and it’s confusing them
Erm if you have a policy then it shouldn’t be confusing to the policy makers
How are volunteers able to understand the confusing area if leadership can’t

FFS

Looks like the buck is going to stop with the local leaders then.

It doesn't take Mystic Meg to foresee an unfortunate incident followed by a lawsuit directed at Brown Owl (or guide/ranger leader) when GGHQ blame it all on her for getting her risk assessments wrong or not following policy.

Well done for getting a reply though!

I'm so embarrassed for them.

It's not a hard answer GG. Do you really not want to acknowledge the fact that some girls get attacked by some boys? Because the world is getting pretty pissed off with boys and men getting away with so much shit.

Someone who is a local leader should email Guides HQ and say their teenage son unexpectedly has to come on the next camping trip and they thought they’d put him in the girls’ tents with them to sleep, but not bother telling the parents. But just wanted to check there’s no safeguarding issues, can HQ confirm?

Someone who is a local leader should email Guides HQ and say their teenage son unexpectedly has to come on the next camping trip and they thought they’d put him in the girls’ tents with them to sleep, but not bother telling the parents. But just wanted to check there’s no safeguarding issues, can HQ confirm?

Do this!

Jeez Louise. If a penis is in the same tent as a vagina, and their owners are under the age of consent, what risks are you actually concerned about? And which risks are the parents concerned about, or would be, if you told them? How difficult can it be?

[different moany voice] oh annnannnddaaaale, you're just reducing people to their genitaaaals again