The problem in a nutshell

[WatchThePotatoesBoil]

For those wondering what all the fuss is over the Government GRA consultation, I tried condensing the whole thing into a single tweet. I decided to post a slightly re-worded version here, because it summarises the problem in a nutshell for those new to this:

Official guidance states that holders of a Gender Recognition Certificate: "Should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes and therefore should not be excluded from single sex services."

Changing the law to allow anyone to legally declare themselves part of this "no-exclusion" group presents a significant risk to the safety of both women and children.

True - and you might like Naomi Cunningham's analogy as to the interaction of reforming GRA 2004 and its likely fallout for the EqA 2010:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3388264-Naomi-Cunninghams-Excellent-Analogy-for-GRA-EqA-interaction

When I saw a certain bearded transwoman on youtube talking about 'broadening the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman" I wondered why they couldn't broaden the bandwidth of what it means to be a man instead? Wouldn't it make more sense?

The nutshell issue for me is that biological sex is being elided and subsumed into gender identity, when they are starkly distinct and clashing concepts. Sex is erased in any meaningful sense... women will lose any sense of self-determination and lose everything rights related (that don't apply to humans as a whole)... men might just see their status diluted by 1%. Because of extant vastly asymmetrical power structures men have almost nothing to lose and everything to gain.

My (male) partner summed it up in one sentence "So, some transwomen are entitled wankers...who knew?"

What TERFs do is to hold up male violence towards women as all-important, more important than the violence of forcing a trans person to have curtailed freedom (unable to use toilets when out, go to gyms and pools etc)

Being asked to use the right toilets for your sex is exactly like actual physical violence .

Being asked to use the right toilets for your sex is exactly like actual physical violence

Yes, I share the . And the concern about demographics who might have curtailed freedoms such as access to safe-spaces that are single-sex, or public lavatories, gyms and pools? I wonder if it's possible that women and men of some religious persuasions might feel that their access would be impeded?

What TERFs do is to hold up male violence towards women as all-important, more important than the violence of forcing a trans person to have curtailed freedom (unable to use toilets when out, go to gyms and pools etc)
Hands up who'd rather use the disabled loo than be sexually assaulted?

Besides, if male violence isn't a problem, the gents will be fine to use as all-inclusive toilets, with the female toilets for females only. Easy!

What TERFs do is to hold up male violence towards women as all-important, more important than the violence of forcing a trans person to have curtailed freedom (unable to use toilets when out, go to gyms and pools etc)

Just to clarify, what we have here is a person saying that women being raped is less important than transwomen being able to go into their changing room of choice at the pool.

And we are to "Just get over it and stop hating".

What TERFs do is to hold up male violence towards women as all-important, more important than the violence of forcing a trans person to have curtailed freedom (unable to use toilets when out, go to gyms and pools etc)

As far as I'm concerned the very real risk of physical violence against women by men, including rape, sexual assault, beating, and death, are more important than the 'violence' of a male not being allowed to go where he wants. The needs of the women who will be unable to take part in life because there are men where there shouldn't be are more important to me than removing sex based segregation in the name of 'being kind'. It isn't hate, it's basic fucking safeguarding.

This is the polar opposite of the equal marriage debate. This is homophobic, misogynistic bullshit that is erasing the existence of gay and lesbian people everywhere. If you have a way to give everyone the freedom they want without eroding the needs and safety of women and girls I'm all ears, but the current TRA agenda isn't it.

Cholka, in one sentence you are saying how nice it would be if we would stop being shitty to each other and in the very next you are using misogynist hate speech.
Seriously, are you for real?

Official guidance states that holders of a Gender Recognition Certificate: "Should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes and therefore should not be excluded from single sex services."

That particular bit of official 'guidance' from EHRC's What equality law means for your business was challenged by Fair Play for Women as it runs counter to the Equality Act. EHRC was supposed to get back to FPFW by last Friday but I don't know if they did.

And yes, you're quite right this is a major problem. No businesses, employers, service providers etc., or customers, service users, patients, employees ... are trawling through the vast piece of legislation that is the EA. We all rely on this 'guidance' and that produced by EHRC carries the most authority as it is they who produce the statutory code. We're all being misinformed.

I believe we should all stop and consult our Germaine Bunbury primers at this point - specifically, the chapter on 'How TRAs like to wind up GC feminists to gather screenshots to post on Twitter.'

Yes indeed Vicky.
Now I am currently making some very nice beetroot and orange chutney, not as nice as my favourite apricot chutney, but still very good.

Of course, a person's right to use the sanitary facilities of their choice overrides any safety concerns. Silly me.

To read what you're saying, you'd think you have to go through a full passport check and body scan to use toilets and changing rooms as it is.
Unfortunately, if there's a man determined to be a sexual predator there's nothing to stop him going in women-only spaces anyway.
You can't seriously be saying that you're at more risk from a transwoman using a changing room than the transwoman is from going into a men's changing room. Seriously?
Male violence is a problem. It's not the only problem, and it's a problem that trans people face as well.
Do you all imagine that transwomen are deviants who will abuse women in changing rooms, or that non-trans women will dress up as women to go into changing rooms? They could do that now, FFS.

Here's my nutshell.

The law legalised a lie for a select number of people, which was morally wrong.
The consultation proposes extending that lie to an enormous number of people, which is worse.
People who tell the truth and refuse to honour the legally compelled lie are being hurt and punished.

BTW I'm not a TRA but this whole debate on mumsnet has such a Mary Whitehouse tone to it, it's really ridiculous.

Germaine Bunbury sets it all out in her recent article, where she says 'Self-id allows any predatory male to have free access to women's spaces and those women cannot challenge him. Moreover, transwomen retain the same patterns and incidence of male violence as 'other' men. Take Karen White and Jacinta Brooks, for example - should they be allowed into women's safe spaces? How about women's refuges, hostels and so on?'

Here's another nutshell.

Why does a man get the right to distinguish himself from other men,
But
A woman is denied the right to distinguish herself from all men?

Bunbury posted a photo of, for example, transwoman Jacinta Brooks an asked "Should Jacinta have free access to all women's spaces?"

Barracker - if I'm ever in need of a speech-writer, and I can afford it, I would hope you'd be available for the gig.

Not all transwomen are deviants, by any means. But all deviants will have a huge gaping loophole on a golden platter handed to them by opening up gender self declaration. Deviants are, by their very nature... deviant.

@VickyEadie so your way of identifying real women is if they look right? What if that pic shows the person after being in police cells overnight and unable to shave? I don't think waving photos around is really the right approach. What about butch women, should they be allowed into your safe spaces? Only if they look womanly enough?

To read what you're saying, you'd think you have to go through a full passport check and body scan to use toilets and changing rooms as it is.

No, because humans recognise sex. Nobody "passes".

@ChilliJamandAvocado I just think that handful of deviants will unfortunately find ways to be abusive anyway, and should be fully punished for that. You could have falsely assuming trans status as an aggravating factor in offences for example, to give a longer criminal sentence.
There's really nothing to stop awful people from walking into changing rooms and toilets now. They do in a handful of cases. But then they get caught and punished. Not sure how the trans law changes anything.