Legalising prostitution

[IHATEPeppaPig]

I am currently reading about the decriminalisation of prostitution and trying to get my head around the best way to ensure that women are not vilified for sex work, that they remain safe whilst also not normalising it.

I was all for the Nordic model but reading Labour's material it claims that this doesn't work and can make it less safe for women.

What are your thoughts?

Nordic model. Help the women, hammer the punters.

Legalising it leads to all manner of horrors - in Germany its lead to a big rise in trafficking. In the uk, the managed zone in holbeck is a nightmare

What’s the material from labour, is this an official position paper? Could they get any more anti women

Legalising it is a fucking awful idea...in my opinion obviously

I think the Nordic model always seemed relatively reasonable

Look at me hedging my bets in case I've said something wrong...

Pimp lobby propaganda claims the Nordic Model makes it less safe for prostitutes but all evidence points to the contrary.
It makes it more risky for punters, although in real life hardly any punters are actually arrested.
It shifts the power balance but is obviously not perfect in practice. No model is. It's prostitution. No "model" "works" when it comes to women selling sex.

In practice decrim and legalisation result in a drop in price so benefits those involved in the trade, punters, club owners, managers etc greatly but disadvantages the sex workers themselves.

Can you link to the Labour material?

Well I thought the Nordic model seemed like the best option in the thinking that no model would be perfect.

No, not official Labour Party as yet but young Labour is apparently getting behind the @ukdecrimnow campaign.

I just can't get my head around how this would help women in any way- surely it would lead to legalised super brothels as per Germany? It just seems that there is a faction of sex workers that are being very loud saying that it's up to them how they use their body and they love sex work (which it is entirely up to them obviously) but it ignores the millions of women who are forced to take up sex work either by physical force or financial force.

twitter.com/hwgyounglabour/status/1047840028003655680?s=21

I've just realised that this is only a part of young labour - apologies if I misled anyone

Eurgh. Young people being groomed to accept selling/buying bodies for sex is perfectly fine.

Yes your thoughts around the NM that it's the least-worse option are reasonable. A good starting point.

Corbyn came out in support of the Nordic Model.

Yes I know he did and that's why I was confused as to why some people are now supporting decriminalisation in favour of the NM.

I just find the whole normalisation of sex work amongst the younger generation really difficult - I will always support women whatever their choices are but that's the point about prostitution though, it's rarely a choice. They seem to be whitewashing the fact that a majority of women who undertake sex work are vulnerable and it's not a choice.

Urgh.

Nordic model is the best way forward.

Yes your thoughts around the NM that it's the least-worse option are reasonable

I agree, i think thats why I struggle slightly with this in that i know its probably not the ideal but its the next best thing

s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

Here's an article on how things have panned out in Germany. Numbers in prostitution are up, trafficking is up (because as one prostitute commented on a thread on here, if you were an organised criminal, which country would you want to traffic women to? One with sanctions for pimping, or one with no sanctions? She actually said her job was easier and better paid and safer in countries with stricter laws, because the punters were more cautious about their behaviour.) Prices have fallen to rock bottom - 5 euros for a blow job on the streets of Hamburg.

Even the Netherlands is struggling - police in Amsterdam now reckon a substantial percentage of the women in the shop windows are now trafficked.

Didn't pan out so well in Leeds. Woman murdered within weeks of the introduction of the tolerated red light area, that area is now a no-go zone for women who've lived in Holbeck for decades, it's spilling over into surrounding streets, there's been a woman kidnapped and raped having simply strayed into the wrong bit of town.

In the UK prostitution is legal.

What is illegal is running a brothel, being a pimp, an adult living off the earnings of a prostitute, training up a woman to be a prostitute or soliciting (whether by prostitutes of potential punters or punters trying to solicit a prostitute)

All of this should in my view remain illegal and punters buying sex should be added to the list.

Prostitution is not work and should never be legitimised and normalised.

"Sex worker" is a weasel term which seeks to normalise prostitution and to obscure the fact that pimps, brothel owners, so-called called "minders", procurers and groomers are "sex workers".

to obscure the fact that pimps, brothel owners, so-called called "minders", procurers and groomers are "sex workers"

This.

I like the NM as it neatly shifts perspective to bring this crime in line with others on the statute books.
For example, theft would attract a lower sanction than receiving stolen goods.

We usually punish the behaviour which creates a market for criminal activity.
I would be delighted to see the same, rational, well thought out rules apply to prostitution.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Look at me hedging my bets in case I've said something wrong...

Do you mean getting "legalising" and "de-criminalising" prostitution mixed up?

I can't remember what the distinction is.

It is not currently a criminal offence to be a prostitute in the UK. No one is suggesting it should be.

I don't know nor care what the difference is between the 2- both seek to normalise prostitution and make it acceptable.

If you want to find out more about Germany's sex industry I highly recommend viewing a documentary called "Mega Brothels". The way the women are treated by the brothel owners and punters is shocking.

I'd go for the Nordic Model.

Decriminalising prostituting women has caused immense problems wherever it has happened. NM is the least worst option.

I wish they would criminalise punters. I was out with a group of twenty-something guys the other week, and they all said that they thought paying for sex is totally fine, except for one (a psychologist, who said his view was due to his work). God, it was so depressing.

If you want to find out more about Germany's sex industry I highly recommend viewing a documentary called "Mega Brothels". The way the women are treated by the brothel owners and punters is shocking.

That documentary is what made me think that prosititution should never be legalised in this country. The women just seemed so unhappy and the whole thing was just so fucked up, it was like they weren't humans.

There was a bit in it where they were interviewing the owner and his daughter. They were talking about how well the workers were treated, how they were happy, how they weren't forced into it etc. The interviewer asked if the owner would be happy for his daughter to do it then, and both of them were like 'hell no'!

lass

No it was more if i managed to get my models mixed

But it is the nordic one i was thinking of

Legalized Prostitution In Germany Looks Like A Living Nightmare:

When German anti-prostitution advocates talk about the situation of prostitution in Germany, we hear the same responses, over and over: “You’ve got to be kidding!” or “How is this possible?” When we do presentations in other countries, people in the audience will often start to cry or ask for a break after 15 minutes to get some fresh air. The same presentations in Germany cause outrage as well, but we’ve noticed that people have become so accustomed to the situation, their emotional response is subdued. In fact, German men will often openly and proudly out themselves as sex buyers at abolitionist events. There is no shame in being a commercial sex buyer in Germany. This is an obvious and alarming sign that decades of legalized prostitution have shaped society.

It’s easy not to notice the harms of prostitution if we don’t look at them directly and, while all women are impacted by the realities of prostitution, most people who aren’t directly involved in this industry have limited knowledge as to what goes on in it. Not to mention that society has covered over the fact that trafficking is absolutely still happening, despite legalization.

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/