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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Humanism UK shocking assumptions used in response to GRA consultation

7 replies

Mumfun · 07/10/2018 17:19

They sent their consultation not from Humanism UK overall but from the LGBT Humanists Group. You don't need to read any further do you?

humanism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/LGBT-Humanists-Gender-Recognition-Act-consultation-response.pdf

They think they can throw a sop through the whole process of saying that the Equalities Act is unaffected. But they havent taken womens voices into account. They are pro Self ID

They say in a letter to members that :We support this on the understanding that safeguards to ensure the genuine intent of applicants for legal reassignment will be in place, and that existing Equality Act protections on the grounds of sex will be maintained. All public authorities need to be aware of these, to prevent laws designed to liberate one set of people inadvertently risking the oppression of another, as has happened in at least one recent case.

‘These protections guarantee, for example, that single-sex services or facilities can continue to be restricted to people of one sex only, if such a restriction is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

But of course we know that these single sex services are seriously threatened by Self ID. They havent listened to women at all.

They then say:

Humanists UK is committed to freedom of thought and the free exchange of ideas. Beyond the parameters of the specific legal situation currently under review, we have no opinion on any philosophical or sociological questions of language and meaning around gender. It is a topic outside our remit. We know, however, that this is a divisive subject of debate in politics, academia, and civil society. Debate over these issues has become severely heated in recent months, with some taking a hostile, zero-sum attitude that is not conducive to mutual understanding or evidence-based policy making. We implore everyone involved in this debate, particularly online, to remember that all parties in the discussion are human beings with feelings and many different genuinely held concerns, and it is the responsibility of each of us to listen to each other patiently when balancing risks and rights in our plural society.

‘In accordance with our own values as an organisation, all our personnel are committed to “engage in dialogue and debate rationally, intelligently, and with attention to evidence” and to do so in a way that “recognises the dignity of individuals and treats them with fairness and respect”. Although these are our own principles, we would commend them to all participants in this discussion.’

Fairness and respect would have included womens views being equally prioritised in the response to the consultation. Also Humanists are supposed to be pro science so not prioritising woolly gender feelings and changing sex which isnt scientifically possible.

Another subscription to cancel.

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LunaLovegoodsRadishes · 07/10/2018 17:28

I quit them when they banged on about the DUP when they went into coalition with the Tories. Their point was scaremongering about many womens rights on mainland UK such as abortion. What they did instead for me was lobby my MP about abortion rights in NI. I said they are a philosophical organisation who shouldn't be tweeting shit like that. They are not a political lobby group. They said they need to lobby government to get for freedom rights for the unreligious. Nah, you cannot have my money anymore, I said, so I quit.

Coyoacan · 07/10/2018 18:36

What I don't get is if any man can self-ID as a transwoman and transwomen are women, how on earth are single-sex spaces going to be protected?

Manderleyagain · 07/10/2018 20:33

Op do they define what they think single sex means? Are they assuming that the exemptions will be used to keep out grc holders?

Mumfun · 07/10/2018 21:12

They wanted to continue to look the good guys. But because they failed to consult with women with knowledge of the issues such as A Womens Place or Fair Play for women they missed the salient points that actually affect the dignity and safety of women.

They repeat ad nauseam that the Equality Act will maintain the protections on the grounds of sex. They say that these points are protected by the Equality Act currently:

. ● that single-sex services can continue to be restricted to people of one sex only;
● that services are provided separately (whether identically or differently)for people of one sex only;
● that it is possible to restrict employment to people of one sex only;
● that communal accommodation can be provided to people of one sex only.

and that these should continue.

EXCEPT WE KNOW THEY ARENT ANY MORE with self ID (which they support with no dysphoria diagnosis and no report on treatment received)

The one problem they mention is the problem of Karen White assaulting women prisoners. But they say that was due to mistakes by the prison service. Im sure the prison service would like to comment on that. The inference Humanism UK make is that if noone makes mistakes everything will be well in the brave new world!

But the organisations who support women's services cant tell at all with individuals who present who is male and female. If they ask for a GRC or birth certificate these will be shown as female. The organisations cant investigate these - they wont be legally allowed to. Also how do they tell in admission to police cells, rape crisis centres , to refuges what sex they are? The prison service might be the one organisation allowed to ask for previous sex status.

But I cant see sports club, refuges , womens changing areas being kept single sex. Too much hassle to do so and Fair Play for Women outline how many have already gone gender neutral, mixed or allow transwomen to avoid litigation and the awful bullying which we have seen. How will organisations who recruit for carers for old people or vulnerable people be able to know what sex people are when they recruit? -What about staff working with children? they will just have to take GRCs.

So Humanism UK dont mention the GRCs but just current Equality Act legislation continuing.

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R0wantrees · 07/10/2018 21:15

The one problem they mention is the problem of Karen White assaulting women prisoners. But they say that was due to mistakes by the prison service.

Even if it were simply a mistake, what organisation, business or service has access to the information, time and resources of the prison service?

arranfan · 07/10/2018 21:48

Earlier thread on Humanists UK's response: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3378073-Humanists-UKs-GRA-Consultation-Response

At best, they're hopelessly naive which is implausible given their sceptic take on so many other topics.

Mumfun · 07/10/2018 22:04

*Earlier thread on Humanists UK's response: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3378073-Humanists-UKs-GRA-Consultation-Response

At best, they're hopelessly naive which is implausible given their sceptic take on so many other topics*

Excellent thanks !

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