I stuck my head above the parapet

[anunseemlylovefordustin]

After months of lurking and learning here, I've finally taken the step I've been afraid of, and joined twitter to engage in debate.

More scarily, I have posted on my own FB page. I've been so scared of offending or hurting my FB friends (many of whom are gay and a couple of whom are genuinely trans) but I've finally stuck my head above the parapet and said what I think. I feel terrified and relieved at the same time!

Thank you all on here for turning me from a lazy 'feminist in name only' to being a REAL, angry feminist. My daughter thanks you too, even though she's only 1 and doesn't know it yet.

Well done! I did the same on my personal FB a few days back and it was both scary and liberating. I’m off Twitter, I don’t feel it does me any good because it makes so bloody angry. I vowed a few weeks back to get offline and talk to real people, it’s going ok so far but it’s nervewracking!

Welcome! I did something I've been dithering about this week too.

I belong to a pub quiz team will women I've known for many years. We have a lot of fun. But we never talk about politics. It's all light hearted.

Anyway, I gathered my courage and talked about the Fair Play for Women leafletting I've been doing and offered them all leaflets. Only one of them wasn't interested but in her job having gender critical views would be dangerous. But the others were interested.

One of them manages a large group of older women and she took a great wodge of leaflets. She was sure they'd all be interested. So that's 30+ women who'll see the leaflets - and they'll talk about them because they work together - which means they'll think about it, go home and tell others... Or so I dream.

I should have done it before. I tend to overthink and silly things make me very anxious.

Congratulations to all of us! The only person I've spoken to about it IRL is my mum, so far But she wasn't aware and now she is - and is going to fill in the consultation document. So that's one....it's a start! I've just got to get braver.

I still worry a lot about hurting the trans people I know (I have seen the hard journey they have had to travel to transition) .....I just need to find a way of making it clear that my fears and concerns aren't related to them. I will find a way!

Do you live in a castle?

Nope!

And your point is....

I spoke out st an exercise class. I was fucking terrified but they listened. I shall do it again. Solidarity sister

Needmoresleep (no idea how to tag) if that was a question for me, my point was to say thank you to the people on the feminism topic for opening my eyes and educating me. Hope that clarifies :)

Not to you at all, sorry, but to sciencelover, who seems to a chosen to spend their Saturday evening scattering this board with a number of strange posts.

Well...what I'd been dreading actually happened, and my m2f trans FB 'friend' (not a close friend, but I am
aware of her situation and really didn't want to offend her) is not happy (she thinks I'll find that predatory men are less common that I think, and the 'predatory man in a dress' fearmongering is what terfs use to deny people like her the right to pee in peace etc). After the initial drop in my stomach, it wasn't actually all that bad replying and trying to explain my worries. So it looks like (for me, anyway) it was the first step that was the scariest!

Well done OP!

Maybe point your friend at Debbie Hayton and Miranda Yardley? If you hear a "truscum" reply then your friend is not a keeper.

Hey, Op- well done!
Could you explain to your friend that it's not just the "predatory male" aspect of shared spaces but the dignity and privacy that goes out the window when a woman has to undress in front of a person she knows to be male.
the other thing is that your friend knows that they're not predatory but i don't- so will feel pretty threatened by their presence in the changing room anyway.
perhaps your friend feels in some way threatened in the male changing room but this is not the resposibility of women to sort out.

Oh, I like those points, thank you. Especially that last one, I will use that. I'll google those names too. I still don't feel like I'm educated enough on the subject!

I have to admit that my initial response to seeing that she had commented was AAAAAAAAAAAGH!!! but because my post was about protections in DV shelters - and because I have direct experience of my mum, with us three kids in tow, literally being hunted across the country by my bio father (until we managed to get into a shelter) - I suddenly found a bit of fire in my belly to respond quite vigorously to the 'I think you'll find that predatory men are not as common as you think' comment :)

It's so encouraging to see everyone else talking about IRL conversations too. My mum was my first one, she's going to go off and talk to her cycling club ladies. I'm mustering my courage to talk to my staff next week (we are all female and all quite close, but I don't think they're aware of any of this at all). The idea that all over the country lots of us are doing the same thing fills me with a tentative hope.

If your friend thinks that predatory men aren't as common as you think they are, then what are her objections to using a male bathroom? She can pee in peace in a cubicle surely?

Well done for speaking out, as of yet I'm still too afraid to do so on Facebook. Twitter just gets me anxious, everything I read just makes me feel even more like we're completely screwed

Sorry you went through that Anun.

Yes, these refuges are vital places.

I do wonder what quota of women being abused would make it suddenly unacceptable to some people. When does "not as many as you'd think" become too many? (For me, logically it's "one").

Exactly!

Sorry to keep updating the thread, but this is fascinating :)

So I know two trans people - one F2M and one M2F. Both of them have responded to my FB post over the last 24 hours.

The response from the M2F friend was pretty abrasive, minimising, condescending and basically told me I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about.

The later response from the F2M friend was polite, calm, non-confrontational, he tried to explain some points about the proposed changes in the law and offered to discuss more if I wanted to.

Obviously only a straw poll of two, but I just thought it was incredibly interesting how different the style of response was, bearing their original genders in mind.

Well done op.

It's astonishing how many men don't have a clue about the reality of what women face. There aren't that many predatory men... yeah, sure. right. That doesn't tally with what I've experienced in my life at all.

It's basically saying you're hysterical, isn't it?

anunseemlylovefordustin Very well done for going public. Welcome to the sisterhood.

That MtF acquaintance is no acquaintance at all; he is a man who places his needs above those of all women and has no hesitation in violating any women's or girls' boundaries for privacy, safety and dignity. He is saying "you have to live your lives on my terms". [A typical patriarchal male response.]

The FtM acquaintance sounds like an attempt will be made to "explain" to you that sex self-ID has no impact on the Equality Act 2010. This is not true. It has a massive impact on the Equality Act as these threads here on Mumsnet have made abundantly clear.

Well...looks like I've lost a couple of friends! Both of them keep coming back to me, saying that the kind of scenario I'm describing just wouldn't happen, and that self ID won't make the slightest bit of difference, etc etc. Today one of them actually said that wouldn't it be worth the risk, so that thousands and thousands of trans people could finally feel accepted. So I've explained that no, I don't feel that it's worth the risk in the slightest. ....and I think that might be the end of our conversations

I've filled in the consultation document. So I guess.....now, we wait? Fingers crossed for a sensible outcome.

Bit early to raise a glass to you OP but will do so this evening. And to all of us who are stepping up and speaking out - even if it's just a whisper at first. Feels good to know that you are all out there, feministing like mad.

I'm sure if we all stood still, and never moved about, then yeah, the chances of coming across predatory men is slim. But, I, like most women, have come across plenty and don't plan on becoming a hermit to allow men to take over public life entirely.

If your friend thinks that predatory men aren't as common as you think they are, then what are her objections to using a male bathroom? She can pee in peace in a cubicle surely?

Yeah, that's the bullshit that always gets me 😡 They're entitled to see men as scary and violent, but women are legitimate targets and should pretend all men are lovely?

I broached the subject with friends this weekend- they genuinely didn't believe me that people could consider stating that women are adult human females could be in any way transphobic. They were quite shocked and very open to being peak-transed 😀