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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Political apathist horrified by guidance for schools from local council. What to do?

34 replies

brighton19 · 06/10/2018 22:07

I have namechanged for this.

Let me begin by saying that I am not a political person. I have no interest in it, no faith in it, and ideally, spend no time discussing it. On a societal level there are some things that happen which seem like good ideas to me and others which I disapprove of but I don't kid myself that anyone is swayed by what I think about them, so in general I don't waste my energy. I turn out and cast my vote once every four years, don't believe that that action in itself changes anything much, and the rest of the time I live my life and concentrate my energies on the things I can impact positively, i.e my family and friends, work and community. I am generally happy with this state of affairs.

In accordance with the above, I'm not a big follower of the news and here on MN tend to stay away from political / currents events threads. However, you would have to be living under a rock to not have come across the endless discussions on trans rights. So I am not totally clueless about these issues, but until today I have essentially shaken my metaphorical head at the ridiculousness of it all and moved on with my life.

Today posted on facebook by my local council was this (www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/press-release/trans-guidance-schools-helps-tackle-stereotyping-and-keep-children-safe). It's guidelines for schools about how to deal with trans children. There is nothing new here but I suppose seeing it here in reference to the schools my children will attend in a few short years is horrifying, bewildering and has provoked, for perhaps the first time ever, the feeling that I cannot just let this one slide over me.

Here is an excerpt, from a list of scenarios exemplifying the guidance previously stated (emphasis mine): "Parent to school: ‘My daughter doesn’t want a boy changing next to her – what if he looks at her body?’

'Underpinning this scenario is the idea that a trans girl is not a ‘real girl’ and this would be something that a whole setting approach would challenge through training and awareness raising. A Human Rights response would be to state that the child is a girl and as such has
the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such. In response to this parental concern, it would not be appropriate to remove the trans pupil from the changing rooms, but to work together with the parent raising a concern and their
child to find a different solution
. It is the responsibility of members of staff to support both trans pupils and students and
cisgender pupils and students to feel comfortable around one another and to ensure the safety and wellbeing of all in the changing rooms."

Well, clearly, I refute the notion that a trans girl is a 'real' girl, having as she would a penis and testicles rather than a womb and a vagina. My first and foremost objection to this is purely and simply academic. Are schools really teaching this? In biology as well as whatever PSE is called these days? If the school was teaching creationism instead of evolution, I wouldn't be alright with that. How is this different?

Furthermore, this guidance is saying that if I as a parent complain about the presence of a trans girl who retains her penis and testicles changing in the changing room next to my daughter or sharing her dorm room on a residential trip, the response to that will be 'awareness raising'. And that if I raised those concerns, a 'different solution' to the removal of the trans girl from the female-only space would be found, a solution, I suppose, which would stem from my 'awareness' being raised to such a level that I would come to understand the backwardness of my views?

Well fuck that. My daughter is only one year old but it is a genuinely horrifying thought that these people are her future educators. Where is the guidance that protects HER rights? And what about some guidance for schools about how to distinguish between facts and fiction, because that also seems to be in dire need, based on what I've read here.

Anyway, I'm posting here to ask the good folk of mumsnet what I can or should do. I so resent that I've been dragged into caring about this but here I am. Who should I be complaining to and what do I need to read or understand properly before I do? Please help.

OP posts:
IHateHouseworkWithAPassion · 09/10/2018 11:20

Brighton I don't think it matters that your kids aren't at school yet. You don't need to tell the schools how old your kids are, just that you are looking at schools in the local area for your kids in the future. I saw that Brighton's local paper is reporting this too - the more people that speak out the better!
www.theargus.co.uk/news/16969726.mums-angry-at-schools-guidance-for-transgender-children/

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 09/10/2018 11:32

The other very important thing you can do is TELL OTHER PEOPLE. Filling in the consultation yourself is great, but if you can fill it in and get another 5 or 10 people to do so (and some of the other actions too perhaps) that massively increases the impact. (I still need to do more of this - I've spoken to a number of people about it who I thought would agree - and generally did, but need to pluck up courage to approach more, including some of the ones I'm more uncertain about).

hangry · 09/10/2018 11:49

i am pondering sending the link to that argus article to my kids class whatsapp group... but be-right-on is hella woke.

brighton19 · 09/10/2018 13:57

I imagine any expression of gc views generally goes down like a lead balloon around these parts. The levels of woke-ness around here are surely rarely matched elsewhere?? Having said that, my personal concern is more that sharing of ones socio-political views on social media is something I am broadly against. I mean, I don't specifically care if you do but I will probably just unfollow the updates of anyone who bangs on about brexit / veganism / whatever too much. I really don't want to be one of those people. But I suppose no-one sets out to be one of those people, they just find something they care about enough to start convincing other people to care about it too...

OP posts:
brighton19 · 10/10/2018 00:46

ust had an extremely depressing conversation with my dp. Tried to explain what I've learnt in recent days. His response was a combination of 1) disinterest in the whole thing, i.e it's largely irrelevant to us 2) disbelief that things really are as I say, i.e I must have understood it wrong or am exaggerating or have become mad conspiracy theorist, and 3) sympathy for trans people and disdain for what he saw as my refusal to share it (which I do, genuinely). He basically thinks I'm making a big old fuss about nothing with my silly feminist ramblings.

OP posts:
Badgerthebodger · 10/10/2018 00:59

Try women’s sport. For some reason it seems to be a key point in peak transing men. Have you got daughters or sons? If he can look ahead to a life where his daughter has to get changed with boys, share a tent at guided camp with boys, get beaten in every single competitive event they take part in, by boys, he might think differently

Sports is a good one though. Does he believe it is fair that there is a male cyclist (forget his name sorry, google is your friend) who had a mediocre finish in one tournament then went on to smash the women’s tournament a few mere months later? Hannah Mounsey? What would he feel like if our entire female Olympic squad were to be replaced with men who said they were women?

It’s a process I’m afraid. He’ll get there eventually, everyone who looks at it in any detail has a moment where they see it and then it can never be unseen.

brighton19 · 10/10/2018 01:15

We did touch on sport and he did acknowledge that he thinks it wrong that men can ID their way in. He didn't seem to grasp the significance of how self ID will change that though. You're right about the process though, I'm sure. Thanks for trying to make me feel better!

OP posts:
merrymouse · 10/10/2018 01:40

This advice seems factually wrong and misleading.

“child is a girl and as such has
the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such.”

The Equality Act makes it illegal to discriminate against anyone because they are trans, but specifically allows single sex spaces. There is more info here: fairplayforwomen.com/equality-act-2010_womens-rights/

The law says that in most cases (there are exceptions) somebody with a gender recognition certificate should be treated as having their acquired sex, but there is no law that somebody should be treated as female just because they identify as female, and somebody under 18 cannot have a GRC.

NSPCC advice is that changing rooms should be single sex after year 2 and schools should be sensitive to religious and cultural differences and gender identity - but that is very different to saying that a male bodied child has a right to change with girls.

Knowmydisrespect · 10/10/2018 02:31

I've just finished the consultation and have submitted it. It did take a while, and some gin, but I went through it question by question, taking cues from the Fair Play For Women guidance and then using my own words to express or summarise the content of the guidance for each question. It was very, very helpful.

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