Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brighton and Hove new school trans inclusion guidance

29 replies

Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 03:29

Sigh....

www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/press-release/trans-guidance-schools-helps-tackle-stereotyping-and-keep-children-safe

OP posts:
Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 03:30

Let me have your thoughts so I can add them to the BHCC Facebook post about this!

OP posts:
ohello · 06/10/2018 05:07

How can "vulnerable young people question their identity" when they can't even define the word (and it's all so circular)?? If you ask kids if they want ice cream but make them define it before they get any, you for sure know they can define their sweet frozen dairy treat. But identity? nah.

What exactly do they mean by identity cos they NEVER SAY?? The identity of a pink princess passive aggressive drama llama? Or the identity of a he-man super hero who saves the day and is in charge of everything? Or the more reasonable identity of somebody in between both of those who expresses themselves however they want -- which would describe everyone who isn't trans?

Even when they claim they're trying to get away from stereotypes, they're just reinforcing and regressing. Maybe it's because none of these people appear to understand what 'gender stereotype' is, -- it's a phrase which originated by radical feminists in order that they could more fully discuss the patriarchal habit of believing in something which doesn't actually exist (yet the assumption of it has real world ramifications), such as a ghost or a universal ladybrain personality.

Who has ghost gender? I do, and all the people who claim to be "non binary". Who has a universal ladybrain personality? Nobody, cos it doesn't exist in the real world, it only exists as a fantasy in the mind of misogynists and is used to justify their sexism. For example, a sexist twat would say, "oh gosh no real ladybrain person would EVER mind that a rapist with intact peen has access to the women's showers, therefore we don't need to ask women what they think about the trans issue".

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 06/10/2018 06:43

It's incredibly woolly

No right-thinking person thinks that gender stereotypes are OK
Every right-thinking person thinks that children can be harmed by their behaviour, appearance, personality being judged some how wanting if they don't conform to stereotypes.

Little boy likes wearing flowery leggings and wearing pink. WE know he's a boy, and we support that boy to be the kind of boy he wants to be. A boy where what he wears an likes to play with is one facet of his personality

But their solution: label the child as trans...

Locate the 'problem' inside him. Decide he needs support with his identity...

Any right thinking school tells its children that children are all different from each other; that different children like different things; that to bully another child for what they like is wrong
Any right thinking school educates children about the biological differences between boys and girls and men and women. And the wide range of personalities girls and boys have.

Solution: boy knows he's a boy. Everyone else knows he's a boy. Boy and other children accept him.

Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 08:30

Great! Keep em coming!

OP posts:
ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 06/10/2018 11:15

It wants to tackle stereotyping and does no such thing

It believes in the existence of pink and blue brains which is not supported by science

BN1Bod · 06/10/2018 15:37

Hullabaloo The comments on the BHCC site are absolutely fantastic.

I really want to copy them to use in my discussions. Any idea how you can do that from a phone? I want to do asap before they pull the thread as it is so critical of the Toolkit.

I can't seem to copy more than one comment at a time - help!

These could form a really useful resource.

ohello · 06/10/2018 15:45

How do you access the comments on that site? I can't see any?

HandsOffMyRights · 06/10/2018 15:48

Have you linked to The Spectator article this week on gender nonsense in schools?

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/dont-tell-the-parents-official-guidance-to-teachers-of-trans-children/

BN1Bod · 06/10/2018 15:55

ohello the comments are on the Brighton and Hove City Council Facebook page. Well worth a read.

And please, can someone help with the copying/saving thing?! Smile

Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 16:10

Ooh @handsoffmyrights I will do that!

OP posts:
HandsOffMyRights · 06/10/2018 16:12

Do Genderded Intelligence have anything to do with this? If so, their general 'youth guide' for trans is guaranteed to peak a few.

Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 16:17

@BN1BOD no idea I'm afraid. Sorry!

OP posts:
Hullabalooo · 06/10/2018 16:27

Not sure about GI. More probably Allsorts which is local trans group

OP posts:
HandsOffMyRights · 06/10/2018 16:30

Ok - there may already be some GC posts on Allsorts on here if you do a search.

ohello · 06/10/2018 17:21

BN1Bod Thank you! Smile

ohello · 06/10/2018 17:41

Okay I'm copying/pasting some comments here, but without the names just in case including names is against the rules:

" Your toolkit suggests that parents who raise transsexualism concerns may be referred to social services:

www.telegraph.co.uk/.../parents-wont-let-son.../

This is demagogical, draconian, intolerant and the complete opposite of "diversity". There are thankfully people that resist this nonsense, and with the excuse of "acceptance" you are trying to suppress and treat dissent as intolerance. Shame on you!"

"Communicate, involve & support parents & carers as much as possible without breaching the confidentiality of the child or young person. - Under what circumstances would a parent be kept in the dark?"

@previous poster "I've read it and it states very clearly in a scenario where a girl feel a uncomfortable with a transgirl (boy) in the changing rooms then the girl will be the one asked to leave and change somewhere else. It's made her problem."

" I am alarmed by this announcement. You claim to work against stereotypes but this entire agenda of yours is based on the consolidation of one stereotype after another. There is no feeling like a boy or a girl. There are only societal pressures based on deeply entrenched stereotypes. You should be aiming to erase the social barriers so boys can wear dresses and play with dolls, not commit them to a life of medicalisation and pathologisation."

" “A pupil is legally protected from discrimination when they are taking steps to live as the opposite gender or proposing to do so.” This is just horribly backwards and conservative. What on earth does living as the opposite gender mean aside from abiding by a stereotype. I would expect Brighton to be advancing progressive political agendas, not ones that send us back to Betty Crocker. There is no opposite gender. That is the entire point of feminism for goodness sakes. There is no man’s or woman’s specific behaviour that we ought to aspire to."

" Did you consult with groups representing women and girls about their views on this pack? Why are girls' views not important? Why are they to be told that they are bullies if they want to asset boundaries when it comes to privacy issues?

Why do you frequently use the term "gender" in this pack when the correct term is "sex". I'm not sure whether this conflation of the two is deliberate or not. It seems either disingenuous or ignorant.

Why, when many sports experts have found that seperating sports activities by sex increases female participation rates, do you seek to undermine that?
How is sex assigned at birth? Can you explain the process by which it is assigned rather than observed please

" I'd like to identify as a Brighton recycling bin so I would get left alone."

" If I identify as bread do I have to pay council tax"

"So when we tell our girls that they have a right to say NO, that they have the right to boundaries, that no Male has the right to see their bodies unless they choose to let them that’s a lie? That if they are not happy to share with someone male THEY are the ones who will be punished and singled out? “You can have your boundaries, but only the ones I tell you you can have” This is appalling, it’s abusive, it’s telling girls that no means yes.

I love that one!! Flowers

VickyEadie · 06/10/2018 17:42

Reading those comments in their FB page has cheered me up a bit.

BN1Bod · 06/10/2018 18:38

There's 90+ comments on the post. Lots referencing the law and suggesting that as Allsorts don't seem to be adhering to it, that BHCC should withdraw the Toolkit from use. It's those comments that I think are most helpful.

JH from FB - are you on here?!

BN1Bod · 06/10/2018 18:41

Apparently there are quite a few bits of software you can download to extract the comments. My computer is locked so I can't do this. Can anyone else help?

I Googled 'how to export Facebook comments', and getting some (free) tool is the only way it seems.

terryleather · 06/10/2018 19:01

Some days when I'm tired all this anti women bs just makes me want to weep (so that would be quite a lot of the time) but this has made me Grin

" I'd like to identify as a Brighton recycling bin so I would get left alone."

enrichedatthegulags · 06/10/2018 19:29

😂 " I'd like to identify as a Brighton recycling bin so I would get left alone."

Yes the one about teaching girls they can say no is so so important. Hit the nail on the head.

doublethink · 09/10/2018 00:16

They've changed it. To make themselves look less shitty and saying that girls need to be 'educated' if they don't want a penis owner looking at them in the changing room.

brighton19 · 09/10/2018 00:57

Have just taken another look and noticed this gem:

Particular care will need to be taken to ensure that relationships and sex education is inclusive of all genders. For example:

- In labelling the genitals make it clear that most rather than all boys have a penis and testicles and most rather than all girls have a vulva and vagina

So in addition to the impact on shared spaces and sport and what they can expect to hear in whatever PSE is called these days, this is going to be taught in real subjects like biology also as academic fact? Really? Any biology teachers out there care to comment on that?

I am a language teacher and if I were asked to include the teaching of the -made up- pronoun 'zie', I would be ok with doing so on the grounds that languages are not fixed, they grow and change. Biology, however, is different in my view. This is so ridiculous it is boderline unbelievable.

VickyEadie · 09/10/2018 08:23

brighton19

It's such crazy Looking Glass Land stuff I can't believe this is being sent to places of education.

enrichedatthegulags · 09/10/2018 10:03

Think I managed to peak trans a few Brighton residents on the basis that their DDs could be transitioned to little boys without their knowledge and therefore put in with boys on a residential trip.
They couldn't believe what I was saying was true until I showed them the documents on the council website.
And they have school aged children in B&H schools. I think they still sort of don't believe it, in a "well there's been nothing on the BBC" way

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread