Munroe Bergdorf [edited by MNHQ]

[Estellesylvia]

MB is having a little tantrum.

Not very bright, are they?

mobile.twitter.com/MunroeBergdorf/status/1048258154948173825

I’m not on Twitter. Can anyone point Karen in Munroe’s direction?

I HATE this narrative that "Oh it's only middle class white women so we don't have to listen to them" because
NO
It's ALL kinds of women who want to protect their single sex rights.
And likening women trying to protect themselves from men as being like white supremacists?? It's MEN who are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of crimes against WOMEN mate. Not the other way round!

Apologies in advance for looking like an interloper. Long time lurker and recently name changed (although quite active on twitter ) . Anyways, I can almost feel sorry for MB if they really believe what they're saying: womanhood as some kind of territory captured by biological females and defended by 'terfs' like a piece of land that could belong to anyone who desired it but for the likes of us. But it's just bizarre. I'm tempted to type out the material reality of womanhood but I can't be bothered and we all know it anyway! Tbh MB's statements just make me think that MB just thumbs through fashion magazines and has dehumanised women to such a degree that they can't conceive of womanhood further than an image, literally. Or, all else is aged, ugly terfs. 32 BTW 😉

I am puzzled by one of the (only 8) comments at the bottom of the linked "The Conversation' article, where views are put forward by the brave and stunning Alex Sharp, and also Rosa Freedman and Rosemary Auchmuchty.

If a man were to swear in front of an official of the court that he is female and intends to live as a female for the remainder of his life - and then is found to have sworn that oath falsely and goes on to commit an assault (either sexual or physical) in a female only space then her (sic) will face prosecution not only for the the assault, but also for the false declaration.

Surely not so? How could committing a crime, sexual or otherwise, against a woman in a female-only space, prove that the oath had been falsely sworn? Unless he was shouting 'I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man' while committing said assault.

But it doesn't MATTER what you swear. I could swear I'm Beyonce but it doesn't make it so.

The metaphor of womanhood-as-land doesn't even work in MB's favour, Hunderberry - it really is bizarre, I agree. If it's land, it is land that has belonged to women for countless years and is now being invaded by grabby men who whine that we're not being nice and sharing when we don't immediately surrender it all to them.

And yes, it's a faulty metaphor anyway, because material reality wouldn't change even if people wanted it to.

(I'm 31, and working-class, too! All the working-class people I've mentioned this issue to think self-ID is self-evidently nonsense and aren't shy about saying so - but they also tend to be disengaged from any sort of political campaigning).

Oh quite IfNotNow. I regularly swear I am 28 years old, until I get on the bus and swear that I am 66 and entitled to free travel. Nobody buys that. Damn them.

Don't know about Begdorf, but apparently the word woman is transphobic these days, just ask Adrian Harrop.

I'm a cervix-haver. I had my smear test today and everything. It was performed by another cervix haver. She was lovely.

As there are approximately 30 million cervix havers in this country of all ages and races and religions, I was thinking we probably have reached a critical mass where we might be able to group together and demand some very specific rights for cervix havers.

I suspect that might not go down too well with the prostate havers, but I'm sure they'll get over it.

Thanks @Sarahjconnor - that's fab

Thanks womanoftime, and yes it doesn't work. The explanation I gave
was the most charitable reasoning I could interpret in good faith. But I just can't believe that MB truly believes it. It just highlights how wilfully reasonless Tra's are (knowingly) and how helpless we are in a way (if reality is denied) . How the hell can we get through to these people when they literally perceive of us as either cookie cut out glamour models or 'other' *cis terfs?

If you think that cis-women [sic] should hold dominion over 'womanhood' because they are the majority...

We’re the entirety, mate.

Oh quite IfNotNow. I regularly swear I am 28 years old, until I get on the bus and swear that I am 66 and entitled to free travel. Nobody buys that. Damn them.

Stuff this identity nonsense and just swear a lot. That's the MN way.

I'm a cervix-haver. I had my smear test today and everything. It was performed by another cervix haver. She was lovely.

I'm someone who used to have a cervix and no longer does (due to medical neccessity). Still not quite sure what the new 'inclusive' language is going to do with the likes of me...

On Genderquake debate MB drew the false equivilence that as women who had had hysterectomies were still women then Transwomen who don't have wombs, fallopian tubes, ovaries are similarly still women.

Cathy Newman didn't challenge this.
Neither did Victoria Derbyshire when Rebecca Root made the same 'argument'

Aside from the absence of empathy and respect, its entirely illogial.

twitter.com/Imkaan/status/1048113159159074816

What is it with these men who can't really make it as convincing males think they can claim to be women instead

I have no time for Munroe Bergdorf's stupidity. She needs to read some actual black history books (radical suggestion, I know).

But ...

I think we must be tough about supporting 'feminine men.' Masculinity is toxic and harsh. And men who reject that, but maintain their identity as men, and assert different ways of being male and masculine, should be applauded.

If Munroe Bergdorf had embraced her idemtity as a ghay, "effeminate" man, I'd have no problem - although I'd still need to call out the misogyny and ageism of the statement's that Bergdorf id making.

But let's not condemn men who don't want toxic masculinity - let's not call them "failures" at being men. Although we must call out their cowardice in simply converting to being "women." That's no solution.