Getting into the trans issue on Facebook

[Lottapianos]

A friend, a gay man who is a big Alison Moyet fan ( this is all relevant), just put an iffy post about her on FB. I replied to say that I agree with AM and that Stonewall need challenging on this issue. I've had him and another woman friend of his asking me incredulously if Im saying I don't believe that transwomen are women. I said no, TW are not women.

Both of them are using gender to mean sex so I challenged that and said that biological sex is fact. Gay male friend said that he gets it (he totally doesn't!) but asked how it improves trans rights if transwomen are excluded from women's spaces. WTF! I said I don't think penises belong in a women's space - keep it simple eh? his woke female friend just asked if I'm ok with men who have vaginas being in women's spaces. What the bloody hell is wrong with people???!!! I know that none of this is new to anyone here but it's still bloody shocking that biological fact is considered controversial and 'offensive'

I'm torn between ditching the conversation on the basis that they have both lost their minds, or pushing on with the facts and reason.

I'd just tell them my honest opinion and end it, The trans Activism has been hijacked from the hands of transexuals and into the other branches of the transgender umbrella (Fetishists), I don't like this, a lot of transsexuals don't like this, a lot of lesbians don't like this.
If you think they are all antitrans, it's fine, but i don't.

Gay male friend said that he gets it (he totally doesn't!) but asked how it improves trans rights if transwomen are excluded from women's spaces.

How does he think it improves women's rights if transwomen (with penises) are allowed in women's spaces?

"his woke female friend just asked if I'm ok with men who have vaginas being in women's spaces."
Pfft. You could always respond that men don't have vaginas. Or pass it to your gay male friend, ask how does he feel about men with vaginas in men's spaces such as Grindr.

You could push on with facts and reason, if you have endless patience and the skin of a rhino. It could plant a seed that grows (if not in them, in someone observing the convo). Or you could leave them to it. It's a hard call.

I would respond "men don't have vaginas" and then I'd disengage.

Yep - the ones with vaginas = women.

'You could always respond that men don't have vaginas'

I did! And she replied that 'actually some transmen do have vaginas. But you probably don't consider them 'real men''. Uh, well, no!

'Or pass it to your gay male friend, ask how does he feel about men with vaginas in men's spaces such as Grindr.'

Like it

OldCrone, it appears he doesn't give that much of a shit about women's issues! Or he's so blinded by woke trans stuff that he hasnt even considered women in this issue

The point needs to be made that they already have rights under the Human Rights Act and under the Equality Act. The propaganda is to make people think they have none.

I'd stop now.

Leave it at your last very sensible comments and their daft ones.

You'll never change their opinions via Facebook. This is one for the pub. And the lurkers.

Ask him how it improves women’s rights when men who Ross dress sometimes or have penises and are attracted to women want to share open changing rooms with biological women. State your piece and then finish.

OldCrone, it appears he doesn't give that much of a shit about women's issues! Or he's so blinded by woke trans stuff that he hasnt even considered women in this issue

I'd assumed that from his reply to you. Seems like a typical case of not viewing women as real human beings. But by asking him that question, his reply will tell you what he thinks of women. At which point it might be best to withdraw from the discussion.

a pretty shitty friend.

Your friends are misogynistic homophobes.

My god, this place is such an oasis of sanity. It's actually crazy making having people call you phobic and arguing with you about ACTUAL BIOLOGY. Thank you all for reminding me that's it's very important to fight and challenge the madness, but also important to know when to step back and leave people to their wokeness

Word of warning here...
A couple of posts of mine about the GRA on Facebook were spotted by people on there who objected to them. They spread the news about me being [in their opinion] a horrible intolerant TERF.
This has led to me suffering a lot of abuse within a couple of Facebook groups, to several people un-friending me and to some unpleasant stuff via Messenger.
I have shut my Facebook page right down as far as I can via their privacy settings and intend to quietly block or un-friend the abusers once the shit-storm has died down - I don't want to give them further ammunition or stir things up again.
The only messages of support I got were sent as privately as others obviously saw the abuse I received and didn't want to go public and end up on the receiving end.
I hesitate to stop people spreading the word or sharing their thoughts, but do be careful out there.

That's horrible jen. It is scary talking about this on social media