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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's wrong with the GRA consultation?

41 replies

naivetyisthenewblack · 05/10/2018 16:54

I need to compile a list of everything that's wrong with the GRA consultation so I can send it to my MP.

Anyone fancy helping me do this?

So, for example, it's really badly written isn't it - biased and hard to understand. (Have there been any good articles on this? Or can anyone recommend a link on the iportant of plain English?)

Then there's also Stonewall and the Green Party running their own version which seems pretty dodgy to me.

What else should I include?

Does anyone know if it's been translated into different languages? How would I find out?

Thanks.

OP posts:
thatdamnwoman · 06/10/2018 00:18

No clear definition of 'woman', 'man', 'transgender', 'identify' and a whole list of words. We have no idea, as we answer the questions and add our comments, whether we are talking about allowing only those with gender dysphoria to obtain a changed birth certificate or whether any relaxation of the rules/ self ID will apply for every fetishist, cross-dresser and paedophile sheltering under Stonewall's umbrella. Remember, Stonewall says Inclusion Without Exception.

An almost complete lack of concrete ideas about how any relaxation of the current rules would work. Too many permutations (retain medical assessment, relax medical assessment, ditch medical assessment? Two years of evidence of commitment, one year, six months, no evidence of intent required? Different rules for young people? Simple online self ID with no requirements except to tick the box declaring intent?) that leave people with too many options and too many variables to take into account. We end up in a haze of confusion.

No mention of very obvious implications around sex (if anyone can be a woman, what is a woman, what about the Equality Act?), faith (there will be some women who will feel unable to continue using what are currently single-sex facilities) and disability (both around neurological difference and the need for single-sex facilities) This alone suggests to me that any decisions taken as a result of this consultation would be open to challenge because it will have signally failed to take into account the full impact of change.

Freedom of speech. Women have been prevented from gathering to discuss this issue. How can a public consultation be expected to work if the population most likely to be negatively affected is frightened of being seen and heard to air their opinions?

Misinformation. Only yesterday Ruth Hunt of Stonewall stated on Radio 4's PM programme that the law accepts transwomen are women. The law doesn't. The EA differentiates sex from gender reassignment. The GRA offers a route to a legal fiction. When the CEO of Stonewall is able to tell such lies and not be corrected, what chance is there that many of those filling in the consultation will have any real idea of the implications of any changes?

Language: the language and the level of literacy required to understand the complexities of this consultation are set very high. This is exclusionary, as is the fact that many of the questions are about as yet unformulated proposals.

Checks and balances. The thrust of the consultation is entirely one-way: things are beastly for transgender people so how can we make things better? Apart perhaps from the question on divorce, nowhere is there any hint that checks and balances may need to be built into the system. Will people be allowed to change their mind and legally revert to their original sex if they want? What, if any, checks will be imposed? What unforeseen consequences might we be able to predict?

The entire consultation is not fit for purpose because it's posited on the premise that this is just a minor tweak to an existing law with no real downside. It fails to acknowledge the gravity of potential fall-out at every level — from the mundane (women abandoning gyms and swimming pools) to the loss rights and protections under the law.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 06/10/2018 00:26

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT IT

That's the biggest issue, by far! Only LGBT groups and a few pockets of women/feminists, like on here - and when people have tried to bring it into the public eye, discussions of it have been blocked or censored (hardly any mention in the press, BBC etc, and WPUK and other meetings threatened and cancelled etc). Whereas when any surveys of public opinion have been done, they seem to be strongly against it.

Plus what everyone's said above - too much legalese, too much focus on the trans beneficiaries and none on other groups affected, no impact assessments for women/girls, the disabled, religious/racial minorities, LGB etc etc, and all the rest.

Badgerthebodger · 06/10/2018 00:37

thatdamnwoman great post

For me, this whole issue about the GRA has not only turned me into a rad fem but has also made me “peak politics” if such a term exists. It has shown me, very clearly, that our democratically elected government doesn’t give one single fuck about women. I extend that to all the parties we are expected to vote for.

It’s shown me that, actually, the political sphere is a complete cesspit of fools who will say anything as long as it wins them likes. I naively thought there might be some people who were in power because they believed in the greater good and wanted to do their best for the country. How stupid I was. I’m now in the position where I would spoil my ballot, which is both astonishing and upsetting.

Sorry. Derail. But if our democratically elected government can put this absolute fucking shite out and call it a fair public consultation we might as well admit the world has gone to hell in a handcart.

thatdamnwoman · 06/10/2018 00:49

I agree, Badger. Women have been treated with utter contempt by the whole of the political class. Watching them all get up there and parrot TWAW has been an education in what people will say and do merely to keep their jobs.

This has been a real wake-up call. I suppose deep-down I'd always thought that those in charge would, when things got really tough, show some integrity. Maybe before social media and computers they would have done. Not now though. Twitter rules.

Popchyk · 06/10/2018 09:21

I asked when the Women's Consultation begins as I would like to take part in that. We've had the transgender inquiry which focused solely on transgender issues and now we must have the women's inquiry which focuses solely on women's issues.

I genuinely think that's what we need to push for next. We need to keep the pressure up.

The government will hope to take about a year sorting through the responses to the GRA consultation, and then draw up legislation when they hope we've all forgotten about it.

Not gonna happen, pal.

Floisme · 06/10/2018 09:26

Badger - I couldn't agree with you more.

PierreBezukov · 06/10/2018 09:33

It is obscure, opaque, confusing and I couldn't understand most of the questions.

And I have read up about the issue. Oh, and I have a PhD.

naivetyisthenewblack · 06/10/2018 15:32

This is really useful thank you everyone.

OP posts:
ArrivisteRevolt · 06/10/2018 15:33

Have a read of this week’s Spectator. The gender debate is the cover issue.

R0wantrees · 06/10/2018 16:34

The easy read version was rather biased wasn't it?

Its factually incorrect.

Given the intended audience eg people with learning difficulties, young people, those with low literacy, English as a second language etc this is very serious.

Its published by The Department of Education!

"Gender
When we are born, our parents say
that we are either male or female.
This is recorded on our birth
certificate.
As we grow up we start to understand
more about gender.
Most people will be quite happy with
being the gender that was written
down when they were born.
Trans people may feel that they are a
different gender to the one that was
recorded at birth.
They may not feel like either a male or
a female.
We think that there are between
200,000 and 500,000 trans people in
the UK. " (continues)

consult.education.gov.uk/government-equalities-office/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/user_uploads/final-gra-consultation-easy-read-lo-res_v3.pdf

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 06/10/2018 16:49

It's not a Consultation. It starts with the premise that it needs to become easier to obtain the GRC. That obtaining the GRC is onerous. Women were never asked about the GRA in the first place.

Endofthelinefinally · 06/10/2018 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Endofthelinefinally · 06/10/2018 23:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2018 00:18

^
For me, this whole issue about the GRA has not only turned me into a rad fem but has also made me “peak politics” if such a term exists. It has shown me, very clearly, that our democratically elected government doesn’t give one single fuck about women. I extend that to all the parties we are expected to vote for. ^

Point: This is the emotion that Steve Bannon identified early in the Trump campaign. It was used as a women to demoralise women politically and to depress them enough that it suppressed the Liberal minded women's vote. The effect being a couple of extra percentage points to Trump.

The culture war has continued because the plan is working and in the midst of Brexit related stuff, Bannon need the liberal (not self identifying liberal but the not ones who who actively for value liberal values to not vote.).

The same is now happening here to. The culture war polarise left and right and shifts the Overton window.

Just bare this in mind...

R0wantrees · 07/10/2018 01:13

Andrew Giligan Sunday Times article 'Be kinder on gender, begs Jan Morris
The writer and sex-change pioneer calls for tolerance amid a bullying campaign against opponents of the right to ‘self-identify’

concludes:
"One opponent of the reforms who works for a multinational said: “I was sent screenshots of trans activists discussing [on a private Facebook group] a public campaign against my employer to get me sacked. Months later, I can still feel my voice going funny when I talk about it.”

Transgender activists have tried to organise an advertising boycott of the Mumsnet website for allowing criticism of the reforms, and of newspapers for reporting the case of Martin Ponting, now Jessica Winfield, a double rapist moved to a women’s jail after having a sex-change operation.

Politicians and trade union officials have been subjected to what a former Green member of the London assembly, Darren Johnson, called “ridiculous trumped-up complaints from transgender ideologues”. At least 11 have been targeted, though he is not among them.

Only 18% of the public back the reforms, according to a YouGov poll. Yet few frontline politicians have spoken against them. “The silencing campaign has been successful,” said David Davies, the Tory MP for Monmouth, who has himself been subjected to three complaints by trans activists, all dismissed. “This is supposed to be a public consultation, but actually having a consultation and debate is the last thing the transgender lobby wants.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/be-kinder-on-gender-begs-jan-morris-6xb9rrhwx

HawkeyeInConfusion · 07/10/2018 23:37

It includes a question about intersex people. Now I'm sure intersex organisations have repeatedly asked not to be used in this 'debate' yet it seems the government are doing just that in the consultation.

Also the consultation strongly implies that genuinely intersex people (as opposed to those just using the term as an excuse) need the GRA. That doesn't sound right to me. Does anyone know?

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