Increasingly exacting beauty standard for men?

[boatyardblues]

The direct advertising of Immac to men has prompted me to start the thread, but its a discussion I’ve been having with my sons for a while. It was a cinema ad with a hairless chested man & shower scene - there is a new men’s product.

I’ve talked about the higher beauty standard that women are held to with my sons. DS2 made the point that men in movies are expected to be very muscley and strong, which he thought would hard for lots of normal men to achieve. He watches lots of Marvel films, so doesn’t see so many paunchy older men who would never have got cast in the first place if they were women. Anyhow, it was a reasonable point.

The long and short of it is that I can’t decide whether I think its a good thing or a bad thing. Obviously I don’t like the idea of boys and young men being made to feel bad about how they look, but part of me wonders if upping the ante, pressuring men to waste time & money on stupid products to help them conform with the ideal will cheese EVERYONE off quicker & hasten the demise of all this body policing bullshit.

It’s a bad thing. Who does it serve? It is explicitly purposed to make people feel discontent so they buy things they don’t need that they never otherwise would have thought to buy. Yes that drives the economy so it has upsides, but the consumerist economy is not sustainable and seems to make people unhappier even if they have stuff and jobs to buy stuff with.

It's a bad thing. Just because women have historically suffered more in this regard it doesn't mean a race to the bottom is the way to go.

I know this really Die.

I do find it interesting that the porny hairless mole rat aesthetic is now being applied to men.

It's a bad thing. Just because women have historically suffered more in this regard it doesn't mean a race to the bottom is the way to go.

Absolutely!

and this: porny hairless mole rat aesthetic when did we all become so afraid of hair|? It's so clearly a marketing ploy to sell products to people who naturally grow hair to make the hair appear abnormal. Women have experienced this for decades, but i really don't want a load of hairless men too get over it - people grow hair removing it is part of a process to infantilise people.

Excuse typing and punctuation - I'm having to type with one hand only.

I don't know...I mean, I take the point about Hollywood, yes, that is an image most men can barely even aspire to, let alone achieve.

But every position of power you care to name, from pope to President to head teacher to business magnate, is held by paunchy older men without a flicker of "beauty pressure". Compare it to the standard of dress expected of, say, Theresa May, and it all becomes clear. And then flip the picture to Bunce - he gets away with a female dress code that many women in finance on here have stated that they would never get away with.

So whilst I do have sympathy for the pressures on younger men, it is extremely easy for them to say nope, not doing that, and not suffer financially or in their careers. Girls and women can't do that. The inequality stares me in the face every morning when my DH throws on jeans and a black t-shirt to go run his entire department and manage a dozen people in a business-critical team, but I have to put on a dress and tights just to spend my day washing paintpots and racking storybooks.

I’ve talked about the higher beauty standard that women are held to with my sons. DS2 made the point that men in movies are expected to be very muscley and strong, which he thought would hard for lots of normal men to achieve.

I mean, the standards have increased. Look at some old movies, like a 60's James Bond - not the perfectly trained body by any means.

I still think there is greater variety of body types for men to choose from and identify with (just think of this ridiculous vampire guy, Pattinson? No muscles there, eh?), and look at all the overweight Rappers, who think they are GOD's gift to women. I mean, sure there is Adele, but she has probably been told she should lose weight a gazillion times, I doubt anyone nagged those guys.

Anyway, I think standards for men are increasing but are still not as high as for women AND I think it is a very bad thing for both sexes. The whole body cult crap isn't good for anyone and ends in sillyness like the Kardashians. I mean, looking at celeb culture today, you might well believe that a prerequisite for becoming rich and famous is an obsession with your body and else total emptiness and an inability to make any logical argument.
-End of rant.

It's a class thing. The women I spend time with mostly find hairless men (hairless anywhere bellow the neck) repulsive. Especially of they shave and have chest stubble (yes this happened to me once, obviously no sex as a result). Re muscular men I think it's more about health. Men who take care of themselves will be a bit muscular, most women don't exoect a man to look like thor but basic self care is a must. Beyond that there isn't much is there? It's not like men are expected to wear make up or hide grey hair.

My teenage BIL both have their eyebrows waxed and shaped, have to have their hair cut and styled on a regular basis at the barbers and spend a hell of a lot of money on skincare, and they are not the sort you'd expect to bother with any of this stuff as they like to project a 'hardman' image, which is at odds with so much grooming to me, but they say everyone their age does it. They think I'm rather strange for wearing no makeup as their female peers look like they are off to a nightclub 24/7. It's all just such a waste of time and money, and their parents must be paying for it, which is crazy to me as my parents would never have pandered to paying for all this on a regular basis.

It's selling an image and creating a market for the products to maintain that image.

It's also an image with disturbing undertones IMO.

Personally, I find a hairless man a turn-off. (I don't mean bald, I mean body hair removed). I associate smooth, hairless skin with childhood. A muscled, obviously male body without any body hair at all is...ewww, wrong.

TBF I feel the same about women's bodies. Body hair is a sign of adulthood, of physical maturity. Why this obsession with looking prepubescent?

Saw the ad yesterday at cinema. The audience laughed. It will be very interesting to see how long the product lasts, I suspect it will quietly disappear.

I went swimming at the weekend for the first time in ages and really noticed a difference in the men. Men aged up to 40, I would say a good percentage (over half) were properly gym honed with pecs and a six pack, and all the guys like that also either had no torso hair at all or had stubble regrowth.
It's sad. I hoped feminism would mean things would get more relaxed for women, not high standards for men.

My husband refuses to go swimming because he is “too fat”. I’m fatter than him and fuck that. I dgaf.

A few years ago, DP spent a lot of time at the gym for a few months, and pretty much only ate tuna/steak/salad (pre-kids obvs.), and got himself fairly buff. We were going on holiday to visit friends and he had me immac his back and chest so the muscles would show off better (I'm only grateful he didn't think of having me self-tan him too).. it was pretty foul, although the girlish yelp as I sprayed the cold immac on him was quite rewarding. Only happened the once.

I think all young people spend time on their appearance more than us older ones though no? Perhaps this stuff is more extreme and yet more accessible now though. I remember spending hours in front of a mirror when I was a teenager, and now I barely glance! I remember school discos where the boys had gone all out with the gel and the 90s shirts.

I do agree though. Much as with crime rates, there's two ways to equalise - either have more women who are murders, or reduce the male murder rate, and it's easy to see which is the better choice!

Is it that veet ad op? Saw it at the cinema and I felt uncomfortable with it. Why should we be encouraging young men to smoother crap on their chest to remove hair. Waste of time and money. Bad enough that women do all the stuff they do. I don't agree with a race to the bottom and hope the product quietly disappears.

Excuse typing and punctuation - I'm having to type with one hand only.

Eeew Kitty. TMI!

I went swimming at the weekend for the first time in ages and really noticed a difference in the men. Men aged up to 40, I would say a good percentage (over half) were properly gym honed with pecs and a six pack, and all the guys like that also either had no torso hair at all or had stubble regrowth.

A practice nurse in my aquaintance says the same about smear tests - definite age divide on the pubes/no pubes front.

It could have been Veet - showing my age by calling it Immac.

Interesting topic. I met a guy from Tinder recently and was dating him for a few months. He said it's really depressing reading through womens' profiles as he says it's totally commonplace to read things like "don't even think about contacting me if you dont' have a six pack".

To be honest, I think a lot of it is young women thinking that if they're going to be expected to look groomed and attractive at all times then they want the same from a partner.

I don't really understand not being able to date someone without a six pack. I really don't care if my partner's muscly but I do worry about finding someone to have a family with and then the attraction wearing off and I suppose that's quite likely to happen with the ageing process. Having your partner working on remaining attractive to you could be a good thing for the family unit although I'm not denying the absolutely massive downsides. I'm personally invested in trying to stop the ageing process from wiping out how attractive I am completely (not all that attractive to begin with unfortunately). It's not for superficial reasons. I want my marriage to last if I'm ever lucky enough to get married.

For the long haul, surely the wit and emotional intelligence equivalent of a 6 pack is the better bet? A six pack is really not going to last unless your OH is a diligent gum bunny, which is a source of friction for many couples with small children.

GYM bunny, not a gum bunny.

Some years ago, some guys on a forum told me that they were all completely hairless in their, erm, down belows, because "everyone is".
The reason? No woman will even consider it if you have hair down there.
Advertisers of course will try and sell anything to anyone, the more paranoid people the better, but I do wonder who drives these requirements for male grooming. Pretty sure it's women, but where are they getting this idea?

and this: porny hairless mole rat aesthetic  when did we all become so afraid of hair|?

I've seen about 5 minutes of porn in my life. I've always found hairy men deeply unattractive.

Maybe a good example of why feminism shouldn't be just about "equality."

eg, many feminists have a problem with the level of importance placed upon women's looks, and with the time and money many women feel obliged to spend to achieve a certain (probably unachievable) look.
If feminism were solely about equality, then we would be delighted if the same burden was placed upon men.
But obviously that scenario makes things no better for women. As pps have pointed out, it shouldn't be about a race to the bottom.