How would you risk assess this?

[averylongtimeago]

This is the new REN (residential event notification) form that any leader in Guiding has to send off for approval before girls can be taken away.
You have to include risk assessments for everything- including any males who may be on site.

However, what am I to do about the gender neutral attendees? Where do they sleep? Which loos and showers do they use?

How the hell do I risk assess that?

Put it this way: where do you think the buck will stop?

I would bat it back to them in the circs that trans or gender neutral peeps were planning to attend.

You've got me there.

What do they mean by male/female/gender neutral in the Other Children section? I can't fathom that.

Are there any males attending this event? Do they mean biological males? Or women/girls who identify as male? Or both?

Are there any children who aren’t either male or female? I’d put the penis havers down as male and the vagina havers down as female, that is what male and female mean. Let them sort that shit out. If they want to chuck you out let them, I’d love to see that fly in a court of law, because the law is stil the law, and they are breaking it.

Have pm’d you averylongtimeago

We are supposed to put them down as their chosen gender, and to not tell either the other children or their parents about the possibility of a male bodied young person.
The same if it is an adult attending.

And as GG have said it is up to the individual leader to risk assess, I can guess exactly where the buck would stop.

its either
sex: male / female
or gender identity with an open box as there may be 70+ options

sorry should have said that it should be either sex, or both sex and gender identity.

So male/ female/ gender neutral

Means that they see male and female as genders

When they say are males coming they mean people who feel male in head

If all attendees are quietly asked to Id as female for weekend, no concerns about additional facilities

That's correct I think

Or are they ecpecting you to keep dick away from the girls?

No> if you say your female, your female.

They also therefore support not only that twaw and tmam but also that they are actually female/ male.

Wow.

please send this to James Kirkup at the Spectator

Ask them for precise clarification and to take responsibility for the consequences.
Its impossible to fill it in, comply with the law, and stick to safeguarding. So the form is in breach of safeguarding.

And as GG have said it is up to the individual leader to risk assess, I can guess exactly where the buck would stop.

Yep sounds like it. And that is an impossible task. I would bat it back to them personally, because, apart from having an adult standing on guard all night, there's nothing you can do to eliminate risk.

Ask them, and get it in writing.

Also send this to your MP.

Averylongtime ago

'How the hell do I assess that?'

You shouldn't, or make any attempt to assess this level of risk

So you can see the problems guide leaders are having with the "new" rules.
On everything else guiding is shit hot about safeguarding- in the last year the amount of training leaders have to do has been improved and increased. We have to risk assess everything- at the meeting place and when we go out.
And now this.

We can't ask if a child or adult is trans. We can't tell anyone else, even in general terms.
If they say they are female, then they are. If another girl (or leader) has an issue, then they can "request " to use a different space.

And this is their response if you don't like it: basically if you don't like it, leave.

How do you know if someone is male or not?

Genuine question.

And one which GG will avoid answering like the plague.

Well they have answered that one, it's how you feel, obviously. Your biology has nothing to do with it.

But how do you know how someone self-identifies?

Say it is a big residential trip and there are a number of leaders and children from throughout the county gathering there. Janice (female) has said that she is bringing her husband Dave as a helper. Fine.

How do you know how Dave self-identifies? Asking him would be transphobic surely? How could you work out whether he is male or not?

If he says he's male, then you treat him as male. Separate facilities, separate sleeping arrangements, included in your risk assessment.

If Dave says they are "Davina" even if they have a full beard and are very much male bodied, then you have to accept them as female, and I assume you don't need to risk assess them as male either as that would be transphobic.

The same applies to children.

I have been called a bigot and transphobic because I said, in those circumstances, I would not share a bedroom or tent with "Davina".

They are incredibly confused with the terms. This is pretty shocking.

They will only wake up when the volunteers stop volunteering if you do please come across to Scouting we need volunteers too or worse, a teenage girl gets pregnant on camp.

Off to email OSM/OGM to ask they revert back to sex not gender for the records.

If an adult self identifies as not being a woman

What does that even mean ?

avery -

yes

but what popchyk is getting at is

Janice says they are bringing their husband, dave.

How do you find out how Dave self identifies, in order to know whether you need separate accommodation for dave as a male, or not?

You can't ask.

How do you know? How can you do the risk assessment? You have no idea if dave is male and no way of finding out.