Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

BBC respond to my complaint re the C word

106 replies

pennydrew · 04/10/2018 17:58

I complained about an article using the term starting with ‘c’ that is happily not allowed on Mumsnet. This is their response:

Thank you for getting in touch about our article reporting that campaigners opposed to a council motion about Liverpool's transgender community have been accused of "intimidation" and "abuse" by the city's mayor (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45589563).

We amended this sentence to now simply refer to “women” because “c**gender women” may not be widely understood by readers.

Thank you once again for getting in touch.

Kind Regards

BBC Complaints Team
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 08:40

a description of people who identify with the sex they were assigned at birth.

Did you follow up? Only rare intersex people (not even most of them nowadays) have a sex 'assigned' at birth.

The vast majority of women simply are the sex they were observed to be at birth.

You know that, I know that, pretty much every parent knows that.

FFS.

Badstyley · 05/10/2018 08:41

So we now have to be referred to with a negative qualifier? Isn’t it rather dehumanising to refer to people by comparing them to what they are not? We clearly have a hierarchy of woman now and we’re at the bottom.

White people and people who aren’t white, would they think that is acceptable?

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 08:47

Re The Inde. That was my third response after I pushed them for more.

I initially complained about using 'c' word when the Get the L out women were at Pride.

Their first response was
'would be grateful if you could clarify your concerns - is it your position that the small group protesting did not, in fact, identify as women? Or is it rather the term "cisgender" that you object to?

With kind regards
Elizabeth Cobbe

Imnobody4 · 05/10/2018 08:52

I've just looked at the original article and there is a glossary of trans terms in the middle of the story with guess what cisgender.

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 08:52

So I complained again and got this

Elizabeth Cobbe (The Independent)
'I do not agree that we "misgendered" the protestors - we identified them as women.

While I appreciate some disagree with the term "cisgender", we do not consider it to be a derogatory term. If one of the women we described in these terms wishes to make a complaint, we will of course consider her concerns fully; however, as a general point we do not consider "cisgender" to be discriminatory.'

I complained again and got the third response (which I copied earlier)

ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 09:04

It's not so much that 'cisgender' is derogatory, it's that it's nonsensical and simply not applicable to most women. So it's non-inclusive language.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 09:06

One of the pride protesters was on MN, can anyone remember her NN? - iirc Blithe-something ... maybe she'd like to make that complaint.

ChattyLion · 05/10/2018 09:11

BlytheByName

ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 09:16

That's the one. Might be worth you trying to PM her, Hands?

IStandWithPosie · 05/10/2018 09:27

Do you know, I have yet to see the word “cisman” being used ANYWHERE. I’ve never seen it. That’s not to say it hasn’t been used, but I certainly haven’t seen it. “Ciswoman”, I have seen plenty of. Odd that.

Threewheeler1 · 05/10/2018 09:41

Well done pennywise Star
And yes, the Independent is an absolute shitrag.
BBC picked their side a while ago. Be interesting to see their next response to you.
IStandWithPosie - you're right, I've never seen the term cisman in print. Funny how men get to keep their sex category clearly defined in common language.

Coldallthetime · 05/10/2018 09:49

Please escalate this. It's not recognising that cis is a controversial term, which breaches their statutory (charter) duty to be impartial. They don't have to agree it's offensive, but shouldn't take sides.
The change and response makes it worse.

HandsOffMyRights · 05/10/2018 10:22

Thanks - I'll PM her.

Coldallthetime · 05/10/2018 10:29

Follow the official BBC complaints procedure to escalate it.

Annandale · 05/10/2018 11:23

I know a health professional who refers to himself as a cisgender man. It does happen.

Original poster
pennydrew · 05/10/2018 11:42

Coldallthetime Yes I have followed the procedure to escalate it. After that I will report to Ofcom

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 13:05

I know a health professional who refers to himself as a cisgender man. It does happen.

A woke bloke choosing to virtue-signal is a very different matter to 'cis' being applied generally.

FFSFFSFFS · 05/10/2018 15:21

I would like this complaint to be escalated on three grounds:

  • it did not deal with the grounds of my original complaint that the use of the word “cisgender” is biased towards a particular political ideology
  • that the word “cisgender” is still displayed on the webpage.
  • that the replacement phrase “women who are not transgender” is equally as offensive and biased as the word cisgender.

Being a woman is a biological fact - not a feeling. A very small number of people in the population suffer from the complex health problem of sex/gender dysphoria. The fact that a very small number of the population have a significant health condition which leads to an internal conflict on the nature of their biological body does not mean that the fundamental definition of woman should be changed.

There is a political ideology of transgender rights which takes the position that womanhood is based on an internal identity. The “gender identity” of a woman is based on stereotypical cliches of femininity. It is a political movement which is associated with various acts of repression and violence towards women and their rights. More importantly, it is a political ideology and a political movement. It is not a mainstream accepted belief. For the BBC to take the position of this particular ideology is a clear base of bias.

I am a woman because of my biology. If a “gender identity” was assigned to me at birth it was one based on repressive stereotypes of women’s behaviour and place in society which I wholesale reject. This does not mean that I reject being a woman.

In its response to my complaint escalation, I would like the BBC to confirm that it will use the word woman as a description to describe a person with the biological makeup of a woman and that it will not qualify or place this word in reference to people who have an internal identity that they personally feel accords with some indefinable notion of womanhood, but who still have a penis. If the BBC insists on locating the word woman by reference to people who do not have the biology of a woman and who have a penis, can the BBC please confirm what word it will now use to describe the class of people who were previously described as women.

I look forward to a more considered response to my complaint.

FFSFFSFFS · 05/10/2018 15:21

Have also escalated..

Charliethefeminist · 05/10/2018 15:23

Ffs that's brilliant

Charliethefeminist · 05/10/2018 15:26

if the BBC insists on locating the word woman by reference to people who do not have the biology of a woman and who have a penis, can the BBC please confirm what word it will now use to describe the class of people who were previously described as women

Especially this

FFSFFSFFS · 05/10/2018 15:27

They have no idea how very comfortable I am with escalating things...

Charliethefeminist · 05/10/2018 15:32

Grin I can hear you rolling your sleeves up with relish

ErrolTheDragon · 05/10/2018 15:35

I get a hint from your NN that you're a little bit annoyed. But could get a lot more annoyed.

HollowTalk · 05/10/2018 15:37

I feel like one of these days I'm going to explode.

Swipe left for the next trending thread