Transmen location in prison
RealGhouls · 04/10/2018 11:42
There do seem to be a few transmen in prison.
However despite, as I understand it, a Prison Service Directive stating that people should be housed according to their lived gender (i.e. if you are a 'genuine' transperson), I'm not aware of any transmen being housed in the male estate.
This is Claire Taylor www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/addict-locked-up-for-vicious-attack-on-90-year-old-1-1252232, a heroin addict under an indefinite sentence for public protection, and by all accounts & appearances a very dangerous person.
Claire is transmasculine
However there doesn't seem to be any interest in moving Claire to a male prison.
'Ben' is (or was) a transmale young offender in HMPYOI Foston Hall
Carlos Delacruz is fairly convincing transman, albeit possessing a vagina, and it is been reported to have been segregated www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3181313/carlos-delacruz-falkirk-fake-willy-prison-male/ while prison staff worked out whether to place Carlos in the male or female estate.
So, so far I am not aware of any transmen in male prisons.
And for obvious reasons.
Charliethefeminist · 04/10/2018 11:49
I think one may be asked to take a hit for the team soon
Popchyk · 04/10/2018 12:02
Fair Play for Women made a FOI request to the Ministry of Justice about female inmates in men's prisons.
There are none.
"FOI requests submitted at the end of 2017 have now at last been answered, in May 2018, 6 months later than the expected 28 days. We now know that there are no female-born prisoners in any male prisons. So this means that the 100 transgender prisoners confirmed by the MoJ to be living in the male estate must all be male-born inmates who identify as women. "
ChilliJamandAvocado · 04/10/2018 12:03
Quite. It's always women who have to budge up and make room in our ontological category, and subsequent social/personal accommodations and spaces. So the "woman" category becomes artificially bloated, when we're under pressure enough from male predominance.
See also: Green Party non-men Group. Women's (and only women's) toilets designated "Gender Neutral".
For some unfathomable reason, men seem unwilling/unable to accept transmen in their ontological definition.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
theOtherPamAyres · 04/10/2018 12:11
However transmen identify, they will have the very same kinds of histories as women prisoners - abuse, substance misuse, coercion, fractured families, care-leavers, complex mental health presentations and so on and so on.
They may have tried to deny their socialisation and history by identifying as men, but if they are to be helped out of offending behaviour then they are in the right place. Transmen are women. Men don't have vaginas.
UpstartCrow · 04/10/2018 12:13
Interesting that we don't see Stonewall addressing this and fighting for transmens rights to be in the male estate where they belong.
miri1985 · 04/10/2018 13:05
Theres one example from 2008/2009 in a thesis I found while googling something else.
"It is important to note that there have been examples of transgender men challenging allocation decisions, even though they have not reached the courts. An interview with the Prisoners’ Advice Service (“PAS”) (Interview, 13 April 2016) identified a parallel 2008/2009 case to AB’s, in which a transgender man was allocated to HMP Holloway (a women’s prison), after being arrested at the airport for drug importation. Whilst there, he obtained a GRC legally recognising him as a man and contacted PAS to help secure his transfer to the male estate. According to PAS, he presented “fully as a man” and was on testosterone hormones but had not had genital surgery. HMP Pentonville (a men’s prison) was not prepared to take him due to concerns over his physical security. After having genital reassignment surgery whilst in HMP Holloway, he was finally transferred. PAS resolved the situation at governor-to-governor level, without recourse to judicial review, by arguing that it was discriminatory under the Equality Act 2010 not to transfer him. Effectively, it was his genital surgery that finally secured his recognition and equal treatment as a man by the prison authorities, although his security classification also came into account. A fellow prisoner at HMP Holloway, interviewed whilst on day-release to a voluntary sector organisation, described how this particular man “really had to fight to move to the male estate. He absolutely wanted to move. He really had to battle; he fought and fought to move across. He was allowed only once he was eligible for open conditions because … they felt he would be safer, because there are many instances of FtM particularly, but also MtF, being raped in the male estate” (interview with Joanne Roberts, 26 July 2014).
It would seem from these two interviews (no sources document the prison perspective), that concerns about sexual harm to the transgender prisoner from other prisoners dominated, and outweighed both his housing preference and his legally-certified gender. It was only once his gender was fully embodied through phalloplasty (surgical construction of a penis), that the prison authorities considered him less susceptible to harm, and his right to be recognised as a man and housed in the male estate was finally realised."
Trinity1976 · 04/10/2018 13:07
That is the way it should be, of course, but it completely demonstrates the double-standards being applied when it comes to placement of transwomen.
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 13:57
Francis Crook comment, June 2018
"Ms Crook, executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform, added: ‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.
‘Moreover, the process is inherently discriminatory. A woman identifying as a man could not be transferred to a man’s jail because placing a person with female attributes into a prison to live with 1,000 men, all using communal showers and living areas, would put them in serious danger.’
RepealtheGRA · 04/10/2018 15:35
Transmen are housed with the women for their own protection. It’s almost like biological SEX actually matters
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 15:38
Yes, I have no idea how the 'powers that be' square the obvious anomally.
Turph · 04/10/2018 16:27
Did the raped FtMs just accept their fate, then? It seems unlikely, we heard about Karen White's assaults on women prisoners presumably because either the prisoners of the staff went to the press. But we haven't heard about FtMs.
The above suggests it has already happened.
R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 16:37
there was a set of statistics about sexual assaults in prisons being shared recently.
Its recorded male /female victim / offender etc, it seemed to have used gender self id. The comparison though was stark.
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