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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

James Kirkup,Spectator lead article, 'Trans rights have gone wrong. The new gender orthodoxy allows no room for dissent'

68 replies

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 08:41

This is a really comprehensive article and really must be read in full:

James Kirkup concludes:
"All raise serious issues of public policy, yet politicians are silent, fearful of questioning the trans-rights advocates and the consequences of their orthodoxy. Sometimes with good reason, too. Those MPs, mostly women, who have tried to debate this issue have been showered with online hatred. I’ve stopped counting the politicians, cabinet ministers among them, who tell me privately they worry about the trans agenda but won’t say so publicly

That silence troubles me. I am no social conservative, no culture warrior defending ‘traditional’ values. My interest here is fear of political failure, of what happens when sensible politicians fail to do their job by weighing evidence and reconciling conflicting interests. The failure leaves the trans debate dominated by shrill and aggressive groups intent on eliminating inconvenient evidence and dissenting views.

Failing to debate trans issues on the facts also creates the conditions for deliberate and harmful populism. Rows about trans people in bathrooms are a staple of America’s culture wars. The current vacuum of leadership on the issue means Britain could easily go the same way, if a politician on the make decided to make trouble. That would benefit no one, least of all transgender people, who deserve to live their lives with the same ordinary dignity as anyone else.

That’s not all that’s at stake. Trans-genderism is the perfect ideology for the on-demand internet age. It gives unquestioned primacy to ‘lived experience’, elevates emotion above evidence and convicts — after instant trial by social media — any scrutiny or doubt of that most heinous contemporary crime, intolerance. It chills debate and stifles critical thinking.

Should policies and laws be made on the basis of facts and evidence, or feelings and demands? You might not think so today, but the way our political system responds to the transgender rights movement will matter to everyone."
www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/trans-rights-have-gone-wrong/

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 09:43

This is fantastic. Well done to James Kirkup and The Spectator for publishing it (even if they have invented time travel and published it on the 6th Oct Grin )

GrowlingJaguar · 04/10/2018 09:47

There's another excellent article in the Spectator today which addresses the issue of the training given to teachers on how to handle trans issues in the classroom, and it covers confidential disclosures.
www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/dont-tell-the-parents-official-guidance-to-teachers-of-trans-children/

Needmoresleep · 04/10/2018 09:47

Journalists:

Sarah Vine, Richard Littlejohn ...

The proposed legislation will affect everyone.

That said, I need to subscribe to the Spectator, who have provided such a reasoned light in the darkness.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 04/10/2018 09:53

very valid point Needmoresleep, and I keep saying that all this has taught me that plurality is a good thing, so yes Richard Littlejohn and Sarah Vine too

Although they probably had less to lose than the likes of Sarah Ditum and Julie Bindel

Threewheeler1 · 04/10/2018 09:55

Thanks R0wantrees. Read that this morning & it's a fantastic summary of what's happening.
James Kirkup is the reason I took out a sub to the Spectator and I'm enjoying it so far. Well, apart from Rod Liddle that is.

Charliethefeminist · 04/10/2018 10:16

Hi, there's a Madeleune Kearns article there also

She and he are both champions of critical thinking

Charliethefeminist · 04/10/2018 10:17

Growling, the very same

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 10:20

Previous articles by James Kirkup:
Feb 2018
"So a couple of weeks ago, when I wrote here about the way fear is chilling the debate about Britain’s laws on sex and gender, I really meant the fear of reputational damage. I referred to the fear that MPs and journalists feel that if they question moves to allow people to decide their own legally-recognised gender they will be accused of transphobia and bigotry.

That fear is real, and troubling, but there are worse things to be afraid of. Fear that you will lose your job and your livelihood. Fear of physical attack.

And that is what some people in this debate feel here. They fear that if they are seen to speak out and question the trend to change the law to allow ‘self-identification’, they will come to harm. Real harm."
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/the-violent-misogyny-of-the-gender-debate/

March 2018
"Bluntly, why the hell is no one in politics shouting from the rooftops about this stuff? We’re talking about people trying to put the frighteners on Mumsnetters, for goodness sake. In any other area of public life, politicians usually fall over themselves in their rush to speak up for middle-class working mothers. Yet the politicians who were desperate to talk biscuits at Mumsnet Towers are curiously silent about the intimidation that some women now report there." (cont)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

May 2018
Are girls who might otherwise grow up to be lesbians being nudged or pushed into thinking themselves transgender? I do not have a conclusive answer and nor, so far as I can establish, do any of the clinical experts who work in this field. I do think it is legitimate question to ask, and that the people – lesbians and others – who ask it should be heard.

But I’m not sure they are being heard, because some people make too much noise shouting about transphobia, while others who should be speaking up stay silent. I know a fair number of MPs who privately acknowledge and share some of the concerns and questions I’ve outlined here. None is willing to speak about this publicly.

Perhaps that will change. Perhaps politicians will surprise me and show willingness to do their jobs properly and give voice to all sides of a complex, difficult debate. MPs will get two chances to do so tomorrow. First, Penny Mordaunt, the new minister for women and equalities, takes her first questions in the Commons. Then there’s a backbench debate on “homophobia, transphobia and biphobia”. Both sessions will offer some clues about how willing MPs are to acknowledge the complexity of the gender debate and the interests of the different people and groups concerned. Perhaps some of the things I’ve mentioned here will be raised. Perhaps."
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-silencing-of-the-lesbians/

May 2018
"Surely a bright, thoughtful chap like [Stephen Doughty MP] didn’t mean to imply that it was his job as Member of Parliament to tell newspapers what they can and cannot write? Surely he had no intention of acting as if it is in any way appropriate for a politician to decide what is and is not acceptable for journalists to say, and how they say it? And I can only hope that it was by a simple accident that he singled out by name a female journalist and suggested that her employers stop her saying the things that she thinks – because Doughty happens not to like her saying those things?

As I say, I must assume that he meant none of these things, that he had no such moronic and bullying intent when he spoke and acted as he did. I assume that Doughty is an honourable politician determined to do his job in a democracy and ensure that matters of public policy are debated fully and honestly, whether or not some people find such debate offensive. Because, as I am sure Doughty knows, there is no right not be offended and if we ever let hurt feelings stop us discussing matters of public interest on the basis of the facts, everyone loses." (cont)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

July 2018 "Why has the Government decided to say it will listen to grassroots feminists? That brings me to the less public bit of the story. Some people have been listening to the women’s groups, even if they don’t say so publicly. They include quite a lot of MPs, of all parties. The steady flow of letters and emails from constituents has helped some see that quite a few voters are unhappy about this. (This poll from Pink News underlines that point: 18 per cent of all voters, and 13 per cent of Tories, support allowing people to change their legal gender without medical approval.) That sort of feeling does tell on politicians, even if many aren’t keen to say so publicly, for fear of being accused, like those women’s groups, of nasty transphobia.

(If you doubt the extent of that chilling effect, consider that bomb threat I mentioned. It was made against a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Hastings, in Amber Rudd’s ultra-marginal seat. Even though it would only take a few hundred angry women to switch votes to topple her, Rudd hasn’t yet responded to campaigners’ requests to speak about what the police call a “serious” incident. I find it hard to think of other circumstance in which a former Home Secretary would stay silent about a bomb threat made against a public meeting in their constituency.)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

August 2018 "Since I started writing about this issue here, I’ve spoken to several BBC journalists who say that the Corporation’s output in some cases fails to apply proper journalistic scrutiny to the issue, or to air a full range of opinions. (I should also say that I’ve appeared on BBC outlets a couple of times talking about this; sometimes it seems easier for a man to get on air talking about the silencing of women than for actual women to do so…) Some of my friends at the BBC say the BBC is institutionally scared of criticism by vocal and eloquent trans-rights groups, and so there is a tendency to shy away from the potential disagreement and tension that commonly arises when journalists do their job and put pursuit of the truth above the comfort of their subjects. This isn’t always the case, of course, and some BBC output is first-rate here. It’s possibly invidious to single out individuals, but Nick Robinson has, for example, done some outstanding work on the transgender issue.

The examples of failure I’ve given here, by contrast, are all about timidity; instead of applying proper journalistic scrutiny and scepticism to the information at hand on sex offenders and Cllr Murray, the BBC treated the transgender issue more softly, more cautiously. That is no small matter, and its importance goes beyond the narrow issue of the BBC, in these cases, falling short in its journalism."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-the-bbc-scared-of-the-transgender-debate/

Sept 2018
I’ve written tens of thousands of words about this subject this year, all with the same basic theme: this is an area of politics and policy where people in positions of power and responsibility are failing. Failing to apply basic critical thinking. Failing to scrutinise, failing to analyse. Failing to speak, to debate questions that need full and careful discussion. Failing to do their jobs. Failing to listen. Failing women. This case, this stupid, awful case is just another part of that failure.

It was, after all, not just predictable but predicted. All sorts of people have been warning that prison rules written to accommodate trans offenders could have the consequence of putting vulnerable women at risk from male-born sexual predators. Some of those warnings, generally the ones made by men with clinical or legal expertise, were simply ignored.

Others warnings, made by women, were actively dismissed as hate-speech and bigotry. When Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women first suggested last year that around 40 per cent of the transgender prisoners in the female prison estate were sex offenders, she was scorned and accused of transphobia. When the BBC uncovered official records that showed the real figure was actually higher than that, it tried to bury its own story. (Incidentally, at the time of writing, the BBC has so far managed only six sentences of reporting on the Karen White case.)

When Ann Ruzylo, a former prison officer, said she feared female inmates were being put at risk of attack by male-bodied offenders, she was subjected to a sustained online campaign of abuse and vilification that continues to this day. And when the Sun first reported the case of the rapist Karen White, a Labour women’s officer called Lily Madigan dismissed the report – and thus the accounts of Karen White’s victims – as “transmisogynistic fearmongering”.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/why-was-a-transgender-rapist-put-in-a-womens-prison/

Sept 2018
"To recap: the State put a rapist in a jail full of vulnerable women. That rapist then sexually assaulted four of those women. MPs wanted to know how that happened, and to question the ministers responsible for those events. The Speaker of the House of Commons said they could not do so.

The story of transgender policy in Britain today is a story of political failure, where many people fail to do their job and speak openly about matters of clear public interest. Writing about it this year, I’ve grown accustomed to that failure, though no less angry about it.

But even by the dismal standards of the trans debate, where supposedly responsible figures routinely shirk their duties to appease a small, aggressive group of activists and lobbyists, John Bercow’s decision strikes me as repulsive, a disgusting abdication of responsibility that brings shame on its author and his office."
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-state-has-failed-karen-whites-victims/

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ThefusilliJerry · 04/10/2018 10:28

I think we should reward to Spectator for this by buying it, even if you use the rest of it as bog roll.
I’m saving Toby Young’s page for the morning after a particularly vicious night on the beers 🍻

NauticalDisaster · 04/10/2018 10:29

Oh, great, I have a scan at the hospital tomorrow and will have to wait around for ages, I’ll buy myself a copy and get one for the clinic as well!

I am absolutely supportive of publications that support open conversation and buy the Spectator any time I need to travel to London by train. I also choose the Times when I do my Waitrose shop; I haven’t bought a Guardian in over a year because of the way they cover this issue.

ILuvBirdsEye · 04/10/2018 10:36

Wow! That's a lot of words....

I nominate James K for Women of the year 2018 (Surely we can't discriminate against him based on his wardrobe choices?) If it has to be a man, let it be him.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 10:41

Janice and James have been on this the longest and are now joined by many others in the press.

I can see an increase of anger at politicians which is deserved.

The public are angry when they learn the wool has been pulled over their eyes.

Lots of women are taking these press articles or FPFW leaflets to the streets.

ChilliJamandAvocado · 04/10/2018 10:43

That's a good mini-activism idea actually Nautical.

Either donate your read magazines with gender critical articles in, or buy fresh copies, and donate to the doctor/dentist/etc surgery waiting room.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 10:50

Penny and her TWAW re-educate is making me so cross I am going to buy all the Times and Spectator copies I can find, nightlight the safeguarding, removal of PR and rights then hand them out to the public in my little chats I have with them on the street.

How fucking dare powerless Penny who is insulting us with lies we all know to be lies and demand we accept them. Penny you are the one with the problem, you are incompetent as a MP and Minister you undemocratic dangerous liar.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 10:52

Oops, highlight.

Redkeyboard · 04/10/2018 10:54

Janice and James have been on this the longest and are now joined by many others in the press.

Julie Bindel beats them by possibly a decade. Also Sarah Ditum, Helen Lewis, Glosswitch and others have been on the case for ages.

DayMay · 04/10/2018 10:56

They have been unfairly spiked. Angry They have been at it longer.

ThefusilliJerry · 04/10/2018 11:05

They have, and at personal cost, as mr Kirkup is ego-free enough to acknowledge.

TerfedOff · 04/10/2018 11:07

I've subscribed to The Spectator on the back of James's articles.

I leave it lying in the loo now with the salient page open....

ThefusilliJerry · 04/10/2018 11:14

All the speccie needs to do now is fire that whiny little asshat James delingpole, put taki out to grass and tell Rod Liddle to stop being a lazy shite and write the decent columns he is clearly capable of, and it will find itself a whole new readership!
Also - never employ Boris Johnson again. Not even to clean the bogs. Never never never

DayMay · 04/10/2018 11:19

What can we do about breaking these guidelines with the fake stats? This can't go on.

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

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DayMay · 04/10/2018 11:24

Ruth Hunt

The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this.

Thank you Rowantrees.

silentcrow · 04/10/2018 11:24

I am just staring at the front cover in open-mouthed shock, tbh. Imagine getting a front cover just a month ago! And a whole article about safeguarding!

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 11:49

Julie Bindel beats them by possibly a decade

Julie Bindel Twitter comment:
"I wrote this 11 years ago. I was called a fascist and a bigot, worse than Hitler, and told to die in a fire. Even with the lunacy of the trans-cabal position, I don't get why they would not want Claudia to tell her story:
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2007/may/23/healthandwellbeing.health "

twitter.com/bindelj/status/972116838392922114?s=21

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