Two lapdancing clubs in Bristol applying for their licences again - please object!

[ElanoraHeights]

I originally posted this in feminist activism but it's been suggested that I post it here too so more people can see it.

The two lap dancing clubs remaining in Bristol are going through their licence renewals again - Central Chambers and Urban Tiger (which is opposite the Hippodrome and several main bus stops). Although they are different companies, they are owned by the same people.

Please send in a short objection by 15th October to [email protected] explaining why these relics belong in the past. The council could have refused these licences years ago on the basis of location according to their own policy but they just don't seem to want to, despite recognising that they are problematic and restricting their opening hours.

The reference number for the Central Chambers application is Reedbed Ltd, reference: 18/03023/SEV and for Urban Tiger it's Nightlife Bristol Limited, reference: 18/03022/SEV.

Thanks all

Any questions, please ask!

PS I have already been asked the question about 'what about the women working in the clubs' and I have answered this in the thread in the activist section.

I will do this later. Is there a copy/paste email we can use?

Thanks @SPOFS It's best if you do your own objection as the council dismiss template ones but I can give you some pointers later on when I get home from work. The main thing is on location. The council could have turned down the licence years ago based on their own policy if they were inclined to!

To add to my original post:

Reviews online of both clubs include the following:

"rude bouncers and very ropey women"
"full of dirty, old hookers past their prime"
A complaint from a disabled man who was verbally assaulted by a bouncer
A complaint from a (female) student who was verbally assaulted by a bouncer
A review from a man who said that one of the dancer's 'big juicy a$$' made him "nut in an instant".

One of the clubs is opposite the Bristol Hippodrome and is near the main bus stops for the city. It is now a heavily residential area too.
The other club (Central Chambers) is near a church and a backpackers' hostel. The church has objected to the club for years but been ignored by the council. In the council's own policy, it states that it will consider the proximity of applicants' to schools and churches.

To clarify - the disabled man and the female student were passing by the club, not inside it, when they were verbally attacked by the bouncer(s).

There's an online form on this page if that helps
www.bristol.gov.uk/licences-permits/sexual-entertainment-venues

Thank you for posting the link to the forms @QuentinWinters

@SPOFS
Bristol's own policy states that it will look at the following when its considering an application.

For some reason, whenever you mention the objectification of women, the councillors seem to think that this is a moral objection which is not allowed as an objection in the council's policy.

Both clubs are in the centre of town, near the main stops, residential areas. Urban Tiger is opposite the city's main theatre and Central Chambers is near St Stephen's Church.

Women have reported being harassed by men waiting outside the club. This would come under the crime and disorder condition.

^The character of the locality:
Residential
Leisure
Educational establishments

Other uses in the locality:
Faith/religious institutions
Churches
Family friendly facilities
Impact on regeneration
Impact on tourism, including considerations of the perception of the City at gateway locations
Impact on retail attraction
Risk of public nuisance
Impact on crime and disorder
Public perception of the safety of the locality and impact on that perception^

PS Thank you @SPOFS for doing this. Even if it's short, it's still an objection and the council do take notice of numbers.

Good luck. I fear that an address which isn't even in England let alone Bristol might do more harm than good.

Just bumping this up as one week to go before the deadline. You don't have to live in Bristol to object (but obviously helps if you live/work in the city).

Thanks everyone.

No, i don't believe in interfering in the free market

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-big-questions/201008/sexualized-women-are-seen-objects-studies-find

Why so many of us object:

"These findings are also consistent with a wide range of work showing that objectified women are perceived as less competent. Interestingly, research even finds that when men view sexualized pictures of women, they subsequently view a female experimenter as doing a worse job. In other words, men "carried over" their views of the sexualized women to another woman, who was not scantily dressed."

Do you know who is legally representing the nightclubs?

It may be relevent to information on another thread.

Urban Tiger are advertising itself with lots of photos of headless women and on Tuesdays the hashtag is #TittieTuesday.

On 8th October, Plan International UK published a report into street harassment. Two thirds of the girls who responded reported being sexually harassed in the street and a third reported being sexually harassed in their school uniforms.

The charity is calling for men and boys to changes their attitudes and behaviour.

When access to women's bodies is being sold on the high street, licensed by the council, it is difficult to change that behaviour.

Hi Rowantrees - yes. It's always the same person. Not sure whether I can say his name on here. I'd be interested in the other thread.

Really. Just get a grip and leave it

very ropey women
full of dirty, old hookers past their prime

Charming🙄

Hi nineteenthday
Thanks for the reply. I've been campaigning against sex entertainment venues for over ten years now and won't be leaving it. I've done too much research into the harm they cause to step away now.

Hi MistressDeeCee - I've seen much worse over the years including testimonies from ex dancers as to the assaults they've had from customers. I've seen a few testimonies from women who said they've come away with bleeding nipples from when men have bitten them, for example.

ElanoraHeights

If you do an advanced search with my name as poster, something may come up. I cant remember which thread drew links between some TRAs and specific legal firms.There was a reference to an 'expert' providing legal advice for such clubs.

If the link to thread is broken, come out of MN and Google the thread title.

No. They really don’t. Not every girl who works in the sex industry is forced in there after a 3000 mile trip sat on a wooden pallet in the back of a HGV. Some do it alongside their studies, some do it to supplement a second job.

If you want to focus on something bad- focus on human trafficking.

Thanks R0wantrees I've had a quick look but nothing obvious came up. This person's surname begins with K. Does that ring a bell?

Hi nineteenthday - good bit of whataboutery there! How do you know what I do and don't work on just because I have posted on this one topic?

To be clear, I am concerned about the impact on all women, not just the women who work in the clubs. As I said, I've been working on this and researching the topic for over ten years and know that lap dancing clubs contribute to the attitudes that result in violence against women and girls. In Bristol, the police understand the link too and that's why the licensing department object to the licence applications each year. The local MP is a domestic violence expert and also objects because she acknowledges the link between the objectification of women and VAWG, as do other experts in the field.

By the way, all the improvements in working conditions for the women in the clubs over the years have come from campaigners like me, e.g. better CCTV, separate entrances/exits for the dancers, enforcement of the one metre rule. None of this came proactively from the clubs themselves. The women who work in the clubs are not formally employed; they pay a house fee to work there. The club can still retain its alcohol licence and operate as a bar or restaurant instead. A former SEV in Bristol is now a busy tapas bar, arguably offering more secure employment for women than an SEV does.

This is an old article but the experience of the woman interviewed for the piece is common:
www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/19/gender.uk

Some do it alongside their studies, some do it to supplement a second job

I do ponder this aspect. I know a couple of girls who do it for quick easy money, hours that they want. More money in a couple of nights then they could earn in a week elsewhere.

Is it a case of taking away an opportunity and also moralising on their behalf?

What would be the case if a woman said she did want to do it?

Thinking of lap dancing clubs specifically, I'm not talking about sex trafficking as those aren't the girl that end up in these clubs

Either way with the closure of the clubs I think theyd just go elsewhere. Hopefully licenced and safe tho.

I'm more so worried about private rented accommodation. If people knew how huge a role private rented accommodation plays in sex trafficking, I think there'd be mass shock.

I've done some freelance housing work and came across a really upsetting situation a couple of years back regarding this.

Anyway not aiming to derail just thoughts came to mind as you said you do some other campaigning work Elanora

Thanks MistressDeeCee
Interesting to hear your thoughts and experiences and sorry to hear you've come across some grim stuff re: trafficking. I did some work on this a couple of years ago to raise awareness. A lot of it happens right under our noses and we just don't see it.

Re: moralising on the women's behalf, I haven't said whether or not I think what they are doing is right or wrong from their perspective. I'm more concerning on the impact on all women and the link to violence against women and girls. I don't see VAWG as a moral issue though unfortunately those acting for the club always try to paint objections as such.

I understand that some of these women choose to work there. I have read many testimonies over the years from ex dancers who say that while they are doing it they convince themselves that they are enjoying it but after admit to themselves and others that they weren't. I'm sure that there are some who do enjoy it but, in the grand scheme of things, their choice to do it doesn't outweigh the impact on the rest of the women in Bristol who suffer the consequences of having SEVs on the high street. See my post above with the link to the report about how men dehumanise women after seeing them as sexual objects. This is carried over into workplaces and into family relationships.

I've also read a lot over the years about how risky the dancing can be and how uncertain the income is so am not convinced by stories about how women make a lot of money by doing it.