Why are appeasers afraid of being unkind?

[JellySlice]

People seem to think it is unkind to deny someone something they want.

Surely it is more unkind to promise them something they can never have?

Surely it is more unkind to perpetuate lies about them?

I agree with you. But you see it in all sorts of ways: in how people bring up their children - saying No, 'making' someone upset is the worst thing you can do. Making yourself seem mean to others. It's a lack of confidence, of the ability to assert oneself, and yes, I'd say that was me when I was younger. It's female socialisation

and also, it stems in some cases from genuine fear - conscious or unconscious

Remember that scene in one of the Peter pan films where they all chant "I do believe in fairies, I do, I do" they don't want Tinkerbell to die.

They want to control everyone and exert power, it's like thris whole thing makes everyone a small child again.

Two words: female socialisation.

FermatsTheorem beat me to it.

We actually (if we are counting) I said it first

Sorry Chrysanthemums

People meet their needs however they can.

There's a kind of woman who gets very silly about protective and indulgent of young men, likes taking the mummy role, particularly young men they can view as vulnerable. (Nightmares of issues in secondary schools where a few staff got like this, often over a lad who needed firm lines and consequences and they hurled themselves into fighting their battles, doing everything for them, blocking any expectations or demands, and basically trying to be Mrs Boswell from Bread).

Another kind of woman who had a hell of a time from another older female family member and is now heavily invested in never letting other women escape what she had to put up with because she had no escape, she had to suffer and she's damned if you get away with what she didn't. You meet them a lot on AIBU and the relationships board, especially on the MiL intergenerational threads, insisting that the OP has no right to boundaries, fairness, and needs to be a doormat and shut up.

There are women who deal with threat by appeasement and making friends with those that scare them, which is a vain attempt at 'I'll hold your coat while you hurt them and not me, I'm lovely remember?' Like the poor lass at Speaker's Corner who nearly got thumped by the individual she was there to support and dared to try and soothe him when he was busy thumping and intimidating elderly women.

Many of us grew up in homes where the males got the lions share of the food, weren't expected to do the chores and caretaking the females were, weren't expected to keep their tempers or behave to the same standards as the females, where the females were taught in every way that the males were higher status and in charge, while women often competed with each other for power in what they were allowed to do in the kitchen, housework, etc. I can remember watching elder female relatives at it. I swear a lot of it was suppressed rage being acted out.

In all of them you see women trying to play the game with female socialisation and male dominance to get their needs met in a 'good girl' way that gets them the approval and notice and safety they're craving. Its very hard to realise how deeply this stuff is ingrained in every day life for women.

It's female socialisation, as PPs said. It's such a shame on so many levels, that well-meaning women are suffering cognitive dissonance on such a huge scale.

They are under the misapprehension that they are special. Of course they will be special while they’re useful, but when their usefulness runs out they’ll be turned on like everyone else. It’s a sad fact but it’s true.

Great post knicknack

They are hoping for promotion to the men's club (some metaphorically, some literally). Their eagerness to deny biological sex is to do with the hope that (if they pass the test) this might actually be possible.

The cognitive dissonance bit is the bit where passing the test involves performing femininity to a high enough standard. I'm not surprised that they are desperate to avoid listening to anyone who might cause them to be confronted with this fact and its implications.

Female socialization encourages women to put others needs first at all times and even to deny they have any needs.

So when, such as this current issue, women’s boundaries are well and truly being abused and invaded, it can be challenging for (some) women to first identify that they have boundaries and then that they are entitled to them. Abusive people will use every trick in the book including emotional blackmail up to actual violence in their efforts to make women give up their boundaries.

Regarding language, it definitely is abusive to take words which we all use and know what they mean such as “woman” and “mother” and attempt to redefine them without the permission or consent of women. In other words redefining our reality without our consent.

What I have found interesting is this is getting so outrageous that I think many of the appeased are beginning to struggle with maintaining their position. They are starting to recognize that they are only allowed the title “ally” if they are obedient, one question and they are a T*.

You know you are in an abused position if you are maintaining it because of fear that you will be turned on, bullied and attacked.

It's not just female socialisation, its a mixture of nature and nurture. Some people have blaming personalities, some are pleasing, some are authoritarian. So with some people, socialisation to 'be nice' takes more strongly than with others, and it can manifest in different ways.

You are right UpstartCrow I said “some” women because others are able to be clear about their boundaries and are assertive from the get go. My mum was one of those, a lovely kind and fun person but also she was called a “bitch” by some males in the family as she would refuse to be dominated. She is my role model and she taught me by just watching her behaviour how I was entitled to boundaries. I never used that kind of language until recently but basically being a mentally strong woman.

To be fair also there is a lot of ideology here that is being actively taught to young people at school and university so they believe they are on the side of the oppressed and have not yet critically engaged to see how that ideology plays out.

Ok, that's female socialisation. But governments aren't female. The ECHR isn't female. Why did they do this?

Bribery and corruption is my guess

You clearly just need to focus on certain individuals within organizations and government who have the power to make policy. I know some of the trans activist groups have boasted about changing minds and hearts “by a quite chat over tea” so I think there is definitely the classic backroom politicking going on that always has.

For example Philip/Phippa Bunce as well as winning awards is in a powerful position in the city. The fact that he gaslighted his own company to create a whole policy to support his own behavior shows the power of one individual if he/she is in the right place in an organization. Bunce also belongs to numerous trans activist organizations and I can only imagine the amount of string pulling he was/is able to do. He can network and figure out who’s who in other organizations and can arrange private meetings for example.

When you think the Speaker of the House refused for questions to be asked regarding how a rapist was sent into a female prison, you can see again the power of the individual. He again has personal relationships with men in trans activist orgs.

I agree Ida - if Mr Bunce was a cleaner or office worker there would be no policy change- I bet

Also people are afraid of saying NO ...

IdaBWells I think it's really common for women to be perceived as nasty when they veer slightly away from compliant behaviour. Its just not tolerated.

UpstartCrow on another thread I mentioned how simple actions by ManFriday and Posie with her Poster have been so successful because people seemed genuinely shocked at women behaving even slightly outside the paradigm of expected female behaviour.

I think people are afraid of being called bigots, its horrible to be labeled that. TBH most people I know who say TWAW its in that way, where you can see they don't believe it, but think they are being kind and inclusive.

I'm encountering a lot more says they are not women, but in private.

There's a large element of seeing which ways the wind is blowing, too, among the government. With the best will in the world, the authorities follow the path of least resistance, and while much lip service is paid to due diligence, the reality on the ground is that they will put a lot of trust is people in certain fields. Which is why certain people have targeted certain things to get the situation we have today.