Help me talk to my children's primary school

[BootsandSlippers]

Hello all. Long time lurker here hoping for some advice!

I've recently discovered that teachers from my children's school have been on a training course for The Rainbow Flag, a "national quality assurance framework for all schools and colleges, focusing on LGBT+, (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, plus other related identities), inclusion and visibility."

If the school's approach will just be to encourage acceptance of everyone, regardless of appearance and to tackle bullying, then I'm all for it. If they are going to start talking about CIS gender, pink brains and tell the kids it's possible to change sex, then I have a huge issue with it. Some of the language used on the website alarms me - Mermaids is suggested as a resource for further information. There's talk of 'ambassadors' who go into schools for this organisation to 'campaign', workshops to 'explore gender identity', and a book 'introducing important terminology' (CIS, trans and non-binary).

I'm concerned and want to find out what exactly this will mean for the kids. I plan to go and have a quiet chat with one of the teachers to understand exactly what the school will be doing in order to achieve the standards set by the Proud Trust.

I'm dreading doing this and would really appreciate advice from anyone else how has experience of this or similar organisations in their schools. How best to query this calmly and gently without getting anyone's backs up? I'm worried I might be overreacting and want to be very careful how I approach the school. There has been no direct communication to parents about this initiative. Thanks in advance.

Bumping for you

Place marking but some where there was another thread with some info that I'll try to find.

Thank you both!

In DDs primary the material to be shared with the kids are shown to the parents in advance (though at something stupid like 2pm on a weekday) and if you object to the content your child can be removed from the session.
Our school hasn't got to this though so not sure how Id handle it.

Perhaps there is information on the transgender trend website that might help? They also send materials to schools.

I don't know if I have good advice. I went to my MP and had a massive rant, backed up by all the information I got from Mumsnet, Fair Play for Women and Woman's Place UK. In schools I would emphasise due diligence on the organisations they take advice from, safeguarding first principles and the cod science of the trans ideology, born in the wrong body and gender identity.

Thanks for replying. I couldn't find anything specific on Transgender Trend when I looked last week, but will definitely suggest it as an alternative resource for the school. My biggest worry is that the workshops will happen before parents are consulted.

Thanks Rhymes - I so want to rant . I agree with you 100% - there seems to have been funding from our local council for some of the materials produced by this trust so I imagine the school may be under a certain amount of pressure to sign up.

Following with interest. And with intent. I will be speaking to school governors about this. I will be looking for resources etc but if anyone wants to make it easy for me and post here I’d be grateful (and faster)

This thread might be helpful to read - to check for tensions between safeguarding and gender ideology?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3367043-Letter-to-school-asking-them-to-check-for-tension-between-safeguardi-g-and-gender-ideology

Proud Trust trustees include Christine Burns and Stephen Whitte who have both been key trans rights activists with Press For Change.

See Guardian article 2013 for background: www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

From a recent thread about children in the care system:
Resources including video and leaflet for young people in care and toolkit 'Trans Youth in Care - a Toolkit for Caring Professionals'
www.lgbtyouthincare.com/trans-youth-in-care-resources/

www.lgbtyouthincare.com\www.lgbtyouthincare.com

These resources seem to have mostly been generated in Manchester supported by Tara Hewitt (TELI UCSM), Three cIrcles Fostering (Wilmslow), The Proud Trust (patrons incl prominant TRAs Stephen Whittle & Christine Burns)
www.theproudtrust.org/about-us/our-patrons/

With additional acknowledged support from Mermaids & GIRES.

The Toolkit (publ 2017) seems heavily based on Allsorts Toolkit but has additional content due to the focus being children in care.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

Allsorts School Toolkit discussed here in comparison with Transgender Trend's:
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

& also specifically with regards legislation and policy implications:

Interview with Stephanie Davies Arai:

Relevent article by James Kirkup which includes comment by Dr Polly Carmichael who is lead clinician of the NHS sevice GIDs & comment on Mermaids:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Thank you so much for this. a lot to take in. It's giving me the chills.

I would suggest taking a copy of the Guardian article, Spectator article and a copy of Transgender Trend's school toolkit.

Highlight that the Government have recently announced an enquiry due to concerns. There was a Telegraph (?) article over the summer about Victoria Atkins statement. She is the minister for women.

Acknowledge the issue is complex and requires nuance and that you trust teaching professionals to make decisions about resources based on established safeguarding principles, child development etc.

Teachers should be able to assess the resources.

The attempts to censor Transgender Trend's Toolkit are extreme.

From the Kirkup article linked above:
(extract)
"I do not know for sure, but it seems very likely that he was referring to the rise in the number of children presenting at the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) of the Tavistock and Portman Trust, which is the NHS centre of excellence for helping children and adolescents with gender dsyphoria and other issues of gender-variance.

In 2009/10, the GIDS had 97 children referred, of whom 40 were listed as “assigned female at birth.” In 2016/17, the GIDS had 2016 children referred, of whom 1400 were assigned female at birth. The total caseload for the service rose 2,078 per cent in seven years. The number of assigned females being referred rose 3,500 per cent in seven years. Why have the numbers risen in this way? Is there a clear and undisputed explanation, which would render Lord Tebbit’s suggested research into causation redundant?

This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion."

this is the lecture given by Dr Carmichael referenced: soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

Additionally Kirkup writes:

"[Stephen Doughty MP] said. “Do you think the use of the phrase “trans lobby” is an appropriate one?”

As it happens, Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies." (cont)

"Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (cont)

Thank you. I am going to try and arrange for an informal chat with one of the teachers to test the water. Will report back on this thread, but please carry on posting any relevant info and experiences, it's very much appreciated.

Just found this on Transgender Trend's website and will be printing out a copy to take with me and give to the teacher.

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Impact-of-Teaching-Gender-Identity-to-Children.pdf

I would go straight to headteacher/pastoral lead with this. You might find that a class teacher may well be sympathetic but unable to do or say anything. Take a supportive friend with you for backup. Good luck! And please come back here and let us know how you got on.

UPDATE

I met up with the safeguarding head today for an informal chat - she has taught my kids in the past so I knew she was a fantastic teacher and generally approachable. Basically she said that the school are very much in the early days of looking at this and deciding what their approach will be. Nothing has been planned as yet, but one of the first things she said (without me even bringing it up) is that there are no plans to bring in unisex facilities. More a case of rather than saying "Girls go to the toilet now" they would perhaps say "Blue group, go to the toilet now". The focus is going to be on inclusivity, and ensuring no one feels left out - the phrase she used a couple of times was 'no outsiders'. She did seem to be going into this all with an open mind rather than blindly following the training.

I raised my concerns about confusing sex and gender, teaching children gender identity, and the use of terminology such as CIS. I also questioned the organisations behind the guidance, but I didn't get the impression she was very familiar with the likes of Mermaids and Allsorts. She had not heard of Transgender Trend, and promised to download their resource pack. She said there was no question of teaching the kids that they could change sex, and said the training they had had so far was very much focused on gender being 'in your head'. I gave a copy of Transgender Trend's article on teaching gender identity to children, along with copies of news articles including the recent Spectator article and reports about Mermaids and Helen Webberley. She thanked me for the information and promised to read them all.

All in all I felt like she was very open to my point of view, although I probably wasn't as eloquent as I would have liked. She said she has taught kids at the school who had issues with gender, and felt she let some of them down and didn't want that to happen again. She knows of ex-pupils who are transitioning. We were in agreement that parents need to know what the kids are going to be told before it happens, and need access to any materials they plan to use. Also that a large number of parents are probably currently oblivious to any of this! She asked me if I would be willing to be part of a parents group to discuss the schools approach to this (of course I said yes) and wants to keep lines of communication open. She said she saw me as someone with a balanced view who would be able to counter extreme views in either direction, which makes me wonder what she's been hearing from other parents!

I would say it's definitely worth talking to the school if you have any concerns - I was dreading doing it but am very reassured by what I heard, and happy that they're treading carefully and willing to involve the parents. I'm glad I took the print outs as all the bits I forgot to mention are in there! Thanks to everyone who helped me on this.

Well done OP. The follow up will be equally important. But thanks for taking the time to do this.

Thank you DisappearingFish

Well done!

I think my concern would not just be around my consent for what my child was taught, but what was taught overall because this would inevitably affect my child via their peers, etc.

Maybe if you meet with her again you could gently direct her towards some detransitioning stories?

YetAnotherSpartacus That was pretty much a given - the discussion was around what the school will be doing across the board, rather than anything specific to my kids. I feel that the lines of communication are open now and will definitely have more info ready to pass on when appropriate.