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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Enlightening our Sons on Feminist & Trans issues

12 replies

BeenHereAWhileNow · 30/09/2018 18:27

I've very deliberately said sons in the title as I think it's very different conversations with sons and daughters.

My sons have always been aware I'm a feminist but as they grew up it was mostly me raising issues about the difficulties encountered in the work place. Now they are adults I realised they didn't have much awareness how much women do to remain safe. They had no idea I avoid late evening (networking) meetings because I'm scared to walk through the deserted station car park late at night. Or that even fat menopausal women get sexually harassed in the street (although not as much - joys of the menopause Grin). They didn't realise that with every male colleagues I have to stay alert to be friendly but not to the extent that they misconstrue it and that threshold is different for every colleague (I think that's one reason I prefer working with much younger men, I don't have that stress). That I have to balance being knowledgeable but not 'show up the men'

Also that throughout their childhood as well as working everything they needed was thought about, tracked, sorted etc by me. (Their father still gets surprised that there's reduced shop opening times on a Sunday as it just doesn't impact his life.)

They knew the facts of life and how periods worked from school,but I realised they had no idea cycles could be very variable in timing and duration and that some women had particularly heavy and debilitating periods (especially some teenage girls as they settled into a regular cycle) and they'd never given any thought to the challenges of being an amateur athlete with periods. I ensured they knew mooncups don't suit every woman and that what a woman chose to use for sanitary protection was the woman's choice and not something they had a right to have an opinion on.

Watching the suffragette movie with them when it came out was a great way to get across how recent some of the rights women have now.

They are caring so bought into the idea of trans rights (and I believe everyone has the right not to be discriminated against so we're I n agreement there). One of them has a housemate that's relatively recently declared they are now a woman and my son reassured me they aren't at all pushy about the others getting their name/pronouns wrong and understand it's can be hard to make the mental switch. I pointed out that give them a bit more time and also that the first person they'd will get mad at about a mistake will be a woman And that when that happens I wanted my son to stick up for the woman because his voice as a male will be listened to much more than hers. Month later that happened exactly as I'd predicted and the ensuing drama and the realisation that he was able to stop the woman being harassed when he did step in (and that I'd predicted exactly how it would unfold) helped peak trans that son.

I've talked a lot about the erasure of lesbian rights and the cotton ceiling as this is an aspect I don't think they'd encounter or realise what was happening.

To really get through I've had to show some of the TRA posts on twitter, talk about what's happening on twitter and had to share some of the stories about men with AGP so that they really got why I didn't want to share female space with people like that. They did know a lot more than I'd have expected about MRA, incels and how abhorrent their views are (they educated me Shock so that's been a useful comparison).

I've talked to them about mumsnet and explained it's ordinary women talking to and supporting each other, I talked to them about some of the non FWR threads so they could see the variety of discussions. One of my sons was particularly struck by the Ocado boycott and the power of a place like mumsnet.

These conversations have been very much over time, mixed in with other conversations and often in the car. It helps that we've always talked about politics, racism etc.

I'm not sure what I've missed that I should have covered so would appreciate any thoughts.

*They are of course free to ignore or reject any of what I say to them, they are adults I expect them to do their own investigation.

OP posts:
Budgieinaberet · 30/09/2018 21:15

I like the fact you told your DS what would happen when things blew up, so he did know how to deal with it.
I don't have sons, but you have clearly done a good job Wine

elQuintoConyo · 30/09/2018 21:28

Don't mind me, just copying and pasting to help my own DS. He's only 7yo but i can see the future being even bleaker than it is now Sad

Thank you Been you're doing a great job in my eyes.

Budgieinaberet · 30/09/2018 21:33

ElQuinto I was going to say parents need to start talking to the kids before the schools do

MrsAird · 30/09/2018 21:52

Amazing work Been. Full credit to you and your boys.

You didn't specifically mention porn and prostitution/ sex trafficking - it doesn't sound as though your DSs need their eyes opening about these issues, but any other parent of boys might like to add this to their list of topics.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 30/09/2018 21:57

Consent, for me, has been something I've tried to instil from as young an age as possible; bodily autonomy. I've made it clear you can't hug someone unless both parties are happy to do so, I've tried to respect physical boundaries etc as much as possible. This for both my son and daughter.

UpstartCrow · 30/09/2018 21:58

One thing I did with porn is to make a cut out rectangles in card, and show them how to tell how someone is feeling, looking at just their eyes. They could see that the women in porn are not enjoying it.

I also explained that men ask prostitutes if they enjoy their job, and that no one at work is free to answer that honestly when asked by a customer or client.

MistOnTheWater · 30/09/2018 22:09

I've spoken about trans stuff with my DD(12). It was easy to bring up as one of my best mates is trans. DD has heard us discussing gender and the effect that trans rights have on women's rights, and joined in the convos. There was also a bizarre conversation about wigs - which DD started Grin

theOtherPamAyres · 30/09/2018 22:11

My son was convinced that being gender critical was another form of homophobia. He thought transwomen were gay men and that transition was about gay 'conversion'.

We had to have a discussion about heterosexual men who described themselves as 'lesbian' transwomen, but retained their three-piece suite. Those cases didn't fit with his analysis and it was the beginning of a different conversation about random penises in women's spaces.

When the TUC passed motion 41, and his mother (me!) went apeshit, he contacted his workplace rep and his Union's regional office, about the lack of consultation and the wrong-headedness of the bizarre decision to support something so manifestly unjust.

I didn't expect that outcome when he was accusing me of homophobia, just a few months ago.

MistOnTheWater · 30/09/2018 22:14

Well done for talking about it with your sons been. My DD is only 12 so I do have to be careful to keep it age appropriate. My trans mate is aware of this too. We don't discuss the stuff TRA's put on twitter cos DD would get upset about some of that.

Budgieinaberet · 30/09/2018 22:20

TheotherPam I have read your first sentence 5+ times and I'm still struggling to understand it.
That's not your fault it's just the madness of it all

ChattyLion · 30/09/2018 22:23

You sound like you are giving them awesome tools to navigate this stuff OP.

Are they into any sports? Have you talked about how self ID ing as female often allows the transwoman competitor to win, even if they aren’t actually all that good at their sport?

Making the competition pointless and frustrating for women who train hard and are top of their game but don’t expect to be competing against male bodies.

And that in some sports self ID is really dangerous- like boxing. Women competitors can be injured by what is typically comparatively superior male upper body strength, or body weight/muscle mass.

Ask why in some sporting or leisure venues, where there is a choice of both a mixed sex version and a women’s version of whatever the activity is - TRAs will insist they must be allowed in the women’s category as women. Because validation.

ContentiousOne · 30/09/2018 22:41

I homeschool ds, and next year we're doing a year long biology course, and you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be emphasising - frequently - the binary and immutable nature of sexual reproduction and sex class. We already talk a bit about how playing with appearance and sex based norms - ds likes a bit of nail polish etc - is totally OK and great but it doesn't change your sex! Crazy that these things have to be explicitly communicated. Re feminism, ds had no chance, with a bolshy mum and two bolshy older sisters, of getting out of childhood without a firm grasp on the difficulties of being part of the female sex class.

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