Poll claims 87% of women in London think transgender women should have the same rights as other women

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

DS1 hangs out on Reddit and thought I'd be interested to see this claim. Here's the Reddit thread.

And here's the original article.

I don't know enough about the group doing the poll to evaluate it, but it gives a dramatically different picture to the recent survey done for Pink News, which found almost the opposite.

What do people think? DS1 wonders if the way questions were posed was central.

I'm a bit limited because I'm on my phone. Can't wait for my broadband to be fixed. Web surfing and research is a lot harder on a tiny screen.

I think I would need video proof of all those women agreeing before I believed it.

Absolutely trans women should have the same rights as women. And the same rights as men. Human rights in fact.

No one has the right to redefine material reality and for others to live by a creed they don't agree with. A Catholic doesn't have the right to force an atheist to cross themselves. Someone who believes in pink-brain blue-brain genderism doesn't have the right to force someone who believes in the fundamental equivalence of the sexes in all things other than biology to go along with a genderistic faith position either.

We all have the right to freedom of belief. Trans people get to believe they can change sex. People who don't believe a change of sex is physically or scientifically possible don't have lesser rights. The human right to self determination does not cover controlling other people's opinions.

Poll claims? That women think this? I find that concerning. I certainly don't agree! And I suspect most don't.

I should think 100 per cent of women think trans people should have the same human rights as everyone else, so it's lucky that they do.

However even if there were eighty women who are happy to be naked in a room with a naked male stranger, and 20 women who aren't, the 80 have no right to override the boundaries of the 20. No right at all. Consent is absolute. Women have a right to say no.

Pithy comment by Jonny Best inline with PPs:

Of course trans people should have equal rights - no gender critical feminist I know disagrees with that. But trans activists (and stonewalluk) don't have the right to define sex and gender for all of society. That's not 'equal rights' - it's totalitarian bullshit.

twitter.com/JonnnyBest/status/1046398490211962881

Adding in a good thread by Matt Greenfield with this observation:

I would love to see the responses if the question asked was "Should physically intact males be allowed in women only spaces?" or "Should men who dress as women once a week be promoted as role models for girls?"...

twitter.com/doormatt134/status/1046352165038686209

I would be very interested in how they recorded the answers of women who did not accept “other women” as a description of actual women.

If I was asked this question and was only allowed yes or no I would not answer. There is no “trans women and other women”, there is “women and men”.

HurricaneFloss

Any reply from HQ?
I can't remember your exact comment but seriously didn't notice anything against talk guidelines...

Did the poll qualify “transwomen”? Who are the women they asked? What percentage of respondents were aware that 80+% of “transwomen” are intact self-identifying biological people of the male sex? We need to start being much clearer about this when questions about equality with women are asked.

We need to start being much clearer about this when questions about equality with women are asked

Nah, that would mean that the double speak would be clarified and the poll would go the wrong way to the way they want it to go.

Transwomen are not women so the term 'other women' is not correct here.

It should be 'have the same rights as other people. And they do.

So have read the original article and see it’s produced by the Thomson Reuters Foundation. There is a real possibility that the poll and the reporting thereof breaches the Thomson Reuters Trust Principles which the Foundation is subject to. If I had time I would explore further but I mention it in case others do. Should be easy to ask for the survey details and the principles are at the bottom of the story. Freedom from bias is vital here.

@Serfisafleur

I've been given my first "strike" so I'll need to paraphrase what I said to avoid getting a second

I suggested that the poll result might be because the average person imagines a transwoman to be someone like Hayley from Corrie (i.e. someone who's had all the surgery) rather than a man who still has a penis but wears a dress.

LilyMumsnet objected to how I phrased the later part of that sentence. I do appreciate MNHQ are trying to allow the debate to keep going so will take my strike on the chin.

So, if it's 87% of 1000 women across the cities polled, basically 174 women in London think trans women should have the same rights as other women. Doesn't sound quite so emphatic put like that. And that's without all the things others have mentioned about question bias/obfuscation.

Of course trans women should have the same rights. But single sex exemptions for biological women need to be maintained.