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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Sun 'is changing gender the new anorexia?'

110 replies

HandsOffMyRights · 30/09/2018 10:09

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7362652/changing-gender-new-anorexia/

OP posts:
MipMipMip · 30/09/2018 18:02

Hi C.F. Thank you for sharing. I very much hope things are working out for you now.

made up a new personality for myself that happened to be male. I wanted to become someone else, to be stronger and to run away, but no amount of hormones or surgeries will do that.

This is such an important point. I would imagine this appeals to a lot of people. It does me but I'm old enough to know it doesn't work like that. How many young people caught up in this are doing the same?

NopeNi · 30/09/2018 18:07

Have you thought about legal action against the people who let you down so badly CF?

HidingBehindTheWallpaper · 30/09/2018 18:09

The massive underfunding of mental health resources for teenagers plays a part in this. The welcoming and supportive trans community fill the absence offering a quick fix magic solutions to deep rooted unhappiness.

I’ve seen this to be true. A young member of my family is trans. They have suffered from mental health issues and their sibling is anorexic. The sibling is getting all sorts of mental health help where as the trans person is getting little of the sort. They have been welcomed with open arms by the trans community. Who would turn that down? Who, when suffering from low self esteem, would turn away from people who say ‘you are like us, join us, we’ll be your friends’
Also, once you have done this and you family respect your new self it will be extremely hard to say that you were wrong all along.

We would never say to an anorexic, that they are indeed fat, so why say to someone that they are the opposite gender? Why is sone considered a mental health issue and the other not?

littlbrowndog · 30/09/2018 18:11

Because ppl are too afraid
It w
Might be called conversion therapy I read from ppl who work in health here

SausageOnAFork · 30/09/2018 18:50

Yes that is the problem. People are afraid of being on the wrong side of history. Conversion therapy was given as a ‘cure’ for being gay and the lines between being gay and being trans are very blurred.

Starkstaring · 30/09/2018 18:57

Pumpkin - thank you for sharing your story. Did you ever give any feedback to the gender clinic? Or did they ever follow up on you?

ChattyLion · 30/09/2018 18:59

This blog makes those lines distinct. (That blurring is deliberately done and is appropriative):

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

AnchorMum · 30/09/2018 19:16

Pumpkin Thanks
Thank you so much for posting and helping us to understand more.

My young adult child is mtf trans and got a diagnosis of gender dysphoria within about 10 months of first going to the GP. Her dysphoria came on very suddenly after several very difficult years of personal struggle.

We're in the dark as she no longer speaks to us so you've really helped me to understand how this works.

I see what you mean about your experiences enabling you to learn and helping to give you a better understand of who you are.

It's brave of you to speak out and your voice really needs to be heard as widely as possible.

GulagsMyArse · 30/09/2018 19:29

Hello pumpkin
Thank you for sharing. I have no doubt I would have transitioned if I had been growing up now.

It has taken many years to learn to be comfortable in my body, well TBH I still have difficulty with body acceptance, but it’s much better these days.

I know I can’t sort out the inside, by trying to change the outside.

And thank you for speaking out. 🌻

PumpkinCF · 30/09/2018 19:31

@MipMipMip Lot of young people end up like that, seen it firsthand in a lot of trans communities with a lot of youngsters in them. It was a real eye opener and helped me to reflect on why I chose to transition, too.

@NopeNi No, because technically they did not do anything "wrong". I was fully aware of my choices, the consequences and the risks and I stand by all the decisions I've made. I do not think of myself as a victim or having been let down.

@Starkstaring No, but I've asked for a referral from my GP to see them again. Once they're "done with you", you're discharged and you have to be re-referred as a patient for any follow-up you may need. I've been waiting since, but it is possible that they'll conveniently lose my referral because I told the GP I detransitioned and he might have mentioned it in the letter. Haven't heard of them for a year now.

@AnchorMum Really sorry your child is going through that. It must be very difficult for both of you. I hope both of you will be ok.

For those interested, I'll be somewhat active on Twitter and posting some future articles, documentaries and other stuff that may have something to do with my story or detransitioning in general:
twitter.com/model_rk960

Keeptrudging · 30/09/2018 19:44

Hi CF, thanks for posting. If I could have identified out of my body as a teenager I would have (abuse survivor). As it was, I chose self-harm and anorexia as ways of feeling more in control of it. Part of the healing process for me was pregnancy, when I had to look after my body, and it massively changed shape, but for a positive reason. It took me until my early forties before I accepted my body and began to have a healthy attitude to it.

TheTrickyWitch · 30/09/2018 20:02

This is a great article. Thanks CF for your perspective. It is moving and important.

One of the biggest concerns in this all this is how we can't seem to trust the experts. As a doctor, I'm really worried that, from what you and others have said, there isn't much care taken to corroborate people's stories at the Gender Clinics. Everything really is being done completely on the patients say so, often after they've been prepped online on what to say to get what they want. It's hard to think of any other area in Medicine where this happens.

For most GPs it will be unusual and specialist and well out of comfort zone and experience. Therefore all they can really do is refer on to specialists. Even if the story was to sound a bit off, as can you imagine the complaints that would come in if they didn't refer.

Add that to the unquestioning way this has been covered in the BMJ, with no engagement at all with the dubious ethics, then it feels like a recipe for the next great medical scandal.

Plus, of course, the fact that those of us who work in the NHS feel very constrained to speak out by the climate in the public sector around this issue.

Heratnumber7 · 30/09/2018 20:10

I've long wondered why one kind of body dysmorphia (anorexia) is treated with counselling and the other (gender dysmorphi

Heratnumber7 · 30/09/2018 20:11

And the other (gender dysmorphia) by chopping off bits of the patients body, and chemicals to help them become the object of the dysmorphia, as it were.
What's the difference?

OpalIridescence · 30/09/2018 20:25

Thank you @FionaJT and @Ovahere.

I suspected it would be fruitless, but good advice, thank you.

Rebecca36 · 30/09/2018 20:51

Wonderful! It's certainly fashionable.

I am really glad not to have young children any more.

Having said that, in real life I've not encountered anyone with doubts about their gender.

WokerThanWoke · 30/09/2018 21:16

Hi Pumpkin thanks for coming on the thread. I'm glad you are more at peace now Flowers

I am so grateful that I have never had these thoughts, it all seems to happen so quickly (I mean the professionals act so quickly). And they are such huge changes.

Did you become involved in any trans groups or with individuals when you transitioned? If so, are you still in touch now that you've detransitioned?

Wardrobehamster · 30/09/2018 21:36

@PumpkinCF thanks for explaining about mastectomies for trans people. Thank you for speaking out in such a calm and considered way.

MipMipMip · 30/09/2018 21:53

Pumpkin do you have any thoughts on what should happen now? Should we allow kids to change name and gender in schools etc or is it better to ignore it and get them counselling (if you can find any that question things)? You may have no thoughts on the matter at all, which is fine. Just asking as you'll have a different viewpoint.

And do you have any suggestions on where parents or people questioning should start looking? What did you find useful?

PumpkinCF · 30/09/2018 21:58

@WokerThanWoke I never really was that much involved with trans groups, save for a forum where I posted some questions every now and then. For me, it was not enough that we were all trans there, I needed more to form friendships. Not just that, but it also bothered me that with trans people, quite often, it was difficult to not talk about trans things. I wanted to transition and be done with it, and live a normal everyday life, I was tired of my life revolving around being trans and passing. It was incredibly tiring.

I hope my story helps others, perhaps make a few people think again, though from personal experience, I have my doubts. When I was 16, I was dead sure and nothing anyone would have said would have stopped me, I needed to go as far as I did and go through everything I've gone through to get to this point. I would not have come to this conclusion any other way and I am sure there are a lot of other teens and young adults like me. Going through transitioning, living and being treated as a man has taught me a lot of very valuable life lessons, and I would not be the same person as I am today without having done all this.

PumpkinCF · 30/09/2018 22:17

@MipMipMip
I think a lot about children who feel they're trans these days, because I'd like to have children at one point and I try to imagine being in that kind of situation and it's absolutely heartbreaking, even without having kids. I can't imagine the pain a parent must go through to witness their kid being so upset, and to know the risks and potential regret. I know what it is like to be on the other side though, so I know one thing for sure, that restricting/forbidding your kid from doing the things they want to do will not end up well.

I hated my name all my childhood and preferred being called nicknames, I dont thinkt here's anything wrong with that, as long as the name is not a dead giveaway (if a Susan wants to be called a John for example). I would try and encourage my child to do "gender neutral" things instead of things associated with the opposite gender, to take it slow and experiment "safely". Encourage them to not take anything at face value online, to be critical. Like it or not, if they think they're trans, they'll eventually end up on a trans forum or other online community and they'll see a lot of happy post-transition people who only brag about their good results. Seeing a lot of happy posts like that can give them a false view of what post-transition looks like, but nobody talks about the occasional Male to Female transgender who still looks like a dude in a dress after 10 years of hormones, or that the suicide rates pre- and post-op trans people remains almost the same.

Ignoring it completely will not make it go away and will potentially make it worse. I think the most important thing is to build trust with your child by showing them that you accept them and support them no matter what - don't pretend you're happy about it, do tell them that it's difficult for you, but show support and tell them that their happiness comes first. If they see that you are willing to "sacrifice" your own discomfort for their happiness, they will appreciate that (I know this sounds stupid, of course you want them to be happy, but as a kid who's been in that situation, it meant the world for me that my mother told me this and we grew much closer in our relationship afterwards).

Talk to them lots. Try to get them to talk about what makes them sad, angry, happy. Understanding what "triggers" their disphoric feelings can help you suggest them much less drastic solutions. I think talking to them yourself will get you much further than seeking third party help, unless it's a very good therapist, which you probably wont find on the NHS, and private ones are usually very pricey. Me being able to talk to my mum openly and very honestly about these stuff helped a lot. Hating your body so much that you want to become someone else (even if you dont consciously realise this) is a terrible feeling, remember that they feel this way and that they are very desperate for any solution that promises to ease this pain.

Tying back to the point I made earlier about restricting/forbidding stuff: my dad was like that and I soon started viewing him as an "enemy". "He just doesnt understand, he doesnt know what he's talking about". I lived with my mother, but I know if she was like that, I would have attempted getting on with transitioning even without her support. I've seen a ton of forum posts online on some trans sites where a youngster as young as 14 posts about how their parents dont support them and then a lot of trans people chime in, saying they should absolutely buy hormones behind their parent's backs. No matter what you do, your child will eventually be an adult and they'll do it without your support. You will only alienate them if you go down this route, unfortunately.

Unfortunately I dont have much in terms of resources for parents to read, I know two websites that deal with this kind of thing, one of them just asked me for an interview and they both have some good resources probably:
4thwavenow.com
www.transgendertrend.com

Hope that helps!

Voice0fReason · 30/09/2018 22:27

That is an excellent article, such a shame about the links at the bottom.

LangCleg · 30/09/2018 22:33

Pumpkin - just wanted to add my voice to the other PPs and say thank you very much for coming here and expanding on the article. Your voice is important.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/09/2018 22:41

Among girls I'd say that yes, that's exactly what this is. Among boys no, different issues happening there.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/09/2018 22:45

One of the site’s pages reads: “You have a moral responsibility as a parent to ensure the safety and happiness of your child… If you allow them to go through their genetical puberty, you could very well end up with a dead child.”

If you buy medication over the internet without a prescription you could also end up with a dead child (or a dead whoever takes meds procured that way). I wouldn't buy meds for my cat that way, never mind for a person.