Gender Neutral students in The Times

[Cooroo]

This woman student identifies as gender neutral and explains her reasons in attached shot. How many of us feel we 'belong' in a 'group of women'? Or men for that matter.
Because she can't be defined by her 'gender' she feels it necessary to deny biology, rather than question the whole concept of gender. Poor bloody kids.

So, in summary, she wants to reject gender stereotypes. Good for her. Join the feminist club!. Unfortunately, wanting the speshulness of being non-binary is entirely a reflection of what feminists are talking about. And it's playing into misogyny's hands

What a sad way to think not identifying with your biological make up or being.

I sometimes worry about this attitude it feels like someone has over philosophised their being & coined a 'fashionable' term in gender neutral.

Or maybe it is all too much I.T & we are all disconnected from our bodies & reality? I just don't get it. Be gay, straight, trans but what is gender neutral - neither & nothing?

Is it just about fashion & using different language it is about making a new grp & wanting to be different?

Give it 20 yrs and she'll be married with 2 kids and living in the burbs.

Share token for the Sunday Times article

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/830-students-refuse-to-be-male-or-female-k36z035d9?shareToken=8a69e376c0e2fe5366987497e50509e1

I don't fit in with the WI or the Classic Car club set.

It doesn't make me non-binary though.

She gets told to “pick one side or the other”?

I can’t imagine anyone would be bothered enough by her opinion to say that to her.

it's just the current equivalent of the 60's mods, the 70's punks, the 80's Goths or new romantics, the 90's (um... what was it in the 90's?) and the Noughties emos.

The only problem is that this new form of self expression has taken a very narcissistic turn. These young people want the rest of us to actually indulge their identity and to change the world to fit their new narrative.

I see non-binary as a cop out. It's a way to jump on the gender bandwagon without having to change the way you dress or act one bit. At least people who identify as the opposite sex are being brave in the face of harassment - but non-binary is just a way to say "I am something special too" - but it's not special. It's really not. Everyone is non-binary by the definition of not fitting sexual stereotypes.

I usually tick the “other” box if the question is about gender, as gender is bollocks.

I tick the “female” box if the question is about sex.

What a non-story.

Yes 'Get me, I've got a personality". We all do, my love.

I’d be disappointed if any of them were studying biological or medical sciences. But not entirely surprised, given the way the country is currently awash in cognitive dissonance. And Anthony Grayling, WTF? But really he’s a silly old man now (I can say that as I am old too, I know lots of silly old men).

The only problem is that this new form of self expression has taken a very narcissistic turn. These young people want the rest of us to actually indulge their identity and to change the world to fit their new narrative.

This.

And even more scary is that non-binary people tend to be female and end up being surgically altered. How does no one (outside of GC feminism) see this as the other side of the coin that leads women to seek breast implants and lip fillers (cos they identify further along the spectrum as "very feminine"? )

It's no different. Both are attempts at conforming to extremes of stereotypes.

I don't see either as much different to tattooing, scarification, or other body modifications.

Starkstaring

I agree.

That's what struck me, looking back at the Vogue cover shoot of Caitlyn Jenner, which is what got me interested in trans ideology: that CJ looked no different from poor sad surgically altered actual women, desperately trying to conform to cartoon, porny womanhood

I know some young autistic female students like this. They come across as intensely vulnerable and fragile in real life. The brave facade doesn't mask very well.

But no one at universities would dare challenge any of the current ideology, so we throw out any safeguarding and nod along or capitulate with silence.

Do you think AC Grayling is just trying not to put off students paying £18k for his university? Or is he actually serious?

Why are people so confused?

Sex - check inside your pants if you really don't know.
Gender - it's a social construct really. It differs over time and geography.

Twits.

Whenever I read this self-indulgent shite, I hear in my head the Ode to Joy, with the words "Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me..."

How many of us feel we 'belong' in a 'group of women'?

I have autism and have never felt that I belonged to any group. That said, I have no trouble with my identity: I am a woman aka adult human female.

The only problem is that this new form of self expression has taken a very narcissistic turn. These young people want the rest of us to actually indulge their identity and to change the world to fit their new narrative.

Well put.

I can completely see where she is coming from. It is hard being a teenager and working out where you fit in. If this ideology had been around 30 years ago I suspect I would have fallen for it completely.

Life didn't seem particularly sexist as a student, it only really hit me when I had children.

That's why I find all the trans stuff and blurring of what a woman is so scary; It's a very seductive ideology.

Biologically.
Men are men.
Women are women.
There is no changing that.

You can change what people call you, what you look like, what people think of you / how you think and how you behave in society etc etc but you will always be either male or female.

Saying you are male when you are a woman doesn't stop periods does it? Saying you are female when you are a man doesn't mean that you will grow breasts and your willy will disappear.

So a woman who says she is male goes shopping. Hmm. Mens underwear dept or womans? Men's pants wont really fit or be comfortable will they BECAUSE THEY ARE DESIGNED TO FIT A MAN'S BODY. And she won't find a manbra in there either.

Oh, AC Grayling appears to be a huge disappointment, from that article. I thought he’d be a more critical thinker. Shame.

We're all at the centre of our own drama story, but no-one else gives a shiny shit, is what I tell my teen DD when she is having a precious-blue-haired-snowflake moment.

Now100 I suspect that I would have fallen for it too, hook line and sinker. As a pre teen I cut my hair short and insisted on being called by a boyish shortened version of my name. I definitely did not identify with womeny women (whatever that means...)
As a pp said, I am no living in suburbia with my 2 kids! I dread to think what rabbit hole I may have disappeared down if this current dialogue were about at the time.