I'm conflicted about suffragettes: WSPU's violence and adopting their flag/colours for contemporary purposes

[yetanotherusernameAgain]

Probably like many people, I grew up learning a little about 'the suffragettes' and thinking "Yay! Good for them, what heroines" etc etc. There was mention of criminal acts and violence but no real detail and generally they were presented as a Good Thing.

In later life I found out more about the violence and learnt the distinction between "suffragist" and "suffragette". I realised I didn't approve of the suffragettes' violent actions (read here for examples libcom.org/history/violence-suffragette-movement) which precludes me from idolising the Pankhursts and the WSPU.

Usually not a problem but now the 'suffragette flag' (which is basically WSPU's flag) is topical and gaining popularity. Hence my conflict: I don't want to adopt the emblem of bombers and arsonists but I want to show my support for the reasons behind the flag/colours' current resurgence.

How can I reconcile that? Adopt the colours but not the flag? Or is that hypocritical? Are there any emblems of the suffrage movement with non-violent connotations?

I don't think anybody is using these colours as a statement about the original differnces between -ettes and -ists, nor endorsing violence.

The colours are being used as they resonate with women's current struggle to have basic democratic rights and representation. That is it.

My Great Granny was a suffragette. She was imprisoned for her actions and force fed.

While I have always been taught that criminality is wrong, I have also been taught to be proud of coming from a line of strong women who stood up to men and refused to conform to expectations (my family history is pretty cool on that side). I can disagree with her actions but still admire her strength and try and live up to that.

I can disagree with her actions but still admire her strength and try and live up to that.

That just made me well up. I’m doing a lot of that at the minute. Bloody awesome women everywhere.

I'm sceptical about the bombs. How many women do you know who could make one?

I'm sceptical about the bombs. How many women do you know who could make one?

Are we talking bicarbonate of soda volcanoes or citric acid 'bath bombs?

I would have been a suffragist. I'm very much more about debate and persuasion than smashing windows. Pretending we'd all have been suffragettes is daft, if appealing (just like in France practically everyone claims a relation in the Resistance) I know my limits and I have strong political views but I am not generally in favour of criminal damage. Even though I know it had a valuable political place for the suffragettes.

The suffragists had their own colours - green, white and red - although the violet for suffragettes is now widely adopted. I like the suffragette colours to remind me that I can be braver than society permits. But maybe we should be using the green white and red, too. They were brave as well.

I can't find it in me to judge women who used everything at their disposal to liberate themselves from a totalitarian regime tbh
Women were literally powerless. I don't think we can really conceive of how that would have felt.

The suffragette colours were used in jewellery made at the time using peridot, amethyst and pearls or peridot, amethyst and diamonds, which seems a bit at odds with a terrorist organisation. Here is a beautiful example.

Re making bombs the basic chemistry to create gunpowder would have been known. Saltpetre had a variety of uses and was readily available.

I'm not bothered by this at all. I remain fully supportive of the suffragettes (why are women punished so much more harshly for direct action by society than men?)

I can't see myself ever being an actual window breaker, but those women were punished harshly for their actions if they were caught. They were brave - braver than I am, I think.

I'm embracing the suffragette colours.

Glad you've talked yourself into it, OP

That pendant btw is early C20th. 15ct Gold.
An Amethyst, Peridot & Split Pearl set ‘Suffragette’ Pendant
£1,125

Whatever your views on violence, remember that almost all suffrage societies had their own colours but the purple, green and white have become the best knownso serve as a symbol. I’m fine with that as I can’t think of another that’s as easily recognisable as feminist. That’s powerful and important for us all.

Also, the line between militancy and non-miltancy in the movement was very porous. Many women moved between the two and almost all feminists opposed the force feeding of suffragettes, whatever their take on militant acts.

I could go on but can’t find my glasses so just hope this makes sense.

What was WW1 (Women’s War 1), some could say we are in or nearing a time of WW2.

That’s not to say I agree or disagree with any of the actions back then.
It’s hard to know what you’ll do when the rights of you and your children are removed.

Act of violence by oppressed group is always rooted in inequality. I can both condemn violence and support the reasons for it. If women were seen as humans worthy of their own rights then I doubt the the violence to get women the vote would have been required. Our sisters in Saudi Arabia only gained the right to vote in 2016!

I nearly vomited on knut's tomb.

morning sickness is a bugger.

I think if you are deliberately excluded from democracy for no good reason, despite years of campaigning against your oppression and asking nicely, then you cease to be bound by the laws of that so called democracy. This wasn't about a state having independence or fighting over territory, it was fighting to be in control of their own lives and not be the pawns of men.

Some black men in Britain had a vote before women did. That says a lot about women's position in society.

I wouldn't have stood by and told them to be nice. Fuck that. I'm an ette.

I feel no shame or consideration of appropriation making my scarf. I am currently working along a more suffragist line but my God, I will take it further if needs be. If they manage to remove the actual meaning of what it is to be a woman or girl, how much of a jump would it be to totally remove our voices?

I am not waiting until 50% of Parliament is male and 50% male-born-women that's for sure.

I think I would have joined the Women’s Freedom League. Also militant, but more democratic than the WSPU. Love their motto: Dare to be Free!

Littlemouseroar - Jean Hatchet tweeted this after the Manchester meeting.

Woman last night : “really it’s a shame you all have to waste your time on the trans issue when there’s so much to do in feminism”

No. There isn’t. All the rest depends on this. If men can say they are women and women have to believe them - they killed feminism. It’s over.

When men take the word “woman” from women and use it for themselves it is the most aggressive collective act of male violence against women and girls you will see in your lifetime.

These men know .... oh yes they know... that if we can’t define “woman” ... we can’t name our oppressors “male”. We can’t fight them. We can’t overthrow them.

Let this pass and it’s over women. The whole game is up.

Fight now. For feminism and for your lives as women. (Do read the full thread and exchanges with commenters.)

twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1046022461945524225

That last line gives me the chills. Eve of battle chills.

I don't think any person or group is completely praiseworthy, so if you're looking for perfect heroes you're never going to find them.

I've long thought that it's interesting that the only way society has made women's protests acceptable is by reciting their passive, "naice" sort of actions - chaining themselves up and refusing to eat sort of thing. (God forbid any of them ever wanted to strike out, don't they know that's not polite or ladylike?)

Maybe read some books about it? The internet only gives you so much depth...

There were non-violent campaigns for suffrage for a long time before the suffragettes, they were politely pushed aside. The violent tactics caught public attention and fuelled debate. I think they always avoided injuring people as much as possible.

Arguably though it was the end of WWI that gave women the vote as there was no way men could go on denying women's intelligence and capability after they basically ran the country when the men were off fighting.

Just been browsing for suffragette jewellery on eBay 😍 amazing. I know what's going on my Christmas list

Don’t agree it was the war. Roles did change of course, though the working-class women who staffed the factories and so on were not enfranchised.

What interesting about the modern protest is that its women only and a lot of it is online.

So there hasn't been an ex army dude turn up and start to rabble rouse, with the intention of forming a breakaway group ''thats actually going to do something about this.''
That goes on to violent direct action, after which people end up in prison and ex army dude disappears off the face of the planet.