I gave all my classes this riddle this week - 3 kids got the answer.

[IHeartKingThistle]

I teach secondary English. Last week as a starter I gave all my classes (Yr 7s, 8s and 9s) some riddles to solve and this was one of them:

A man and his son are in a car accident and are rushed to hospital. When they arrive the doctor looks at the boy and exclaims 'I can't operate on him, he's my son!' How can this be?

Some kids guessed that the boy had 2 dads in a gay relationship, which could technically be correct of course. But it only occurred to 3 kids out of nearly 100 that the doctor could be a woman. Not one of the Year 7s thought of it.

In this day and age? I couldn't believe it!

They got a nice little lecture on feminism as a bonus that lesson

I'm trying to think of a gender-neutral job title which is more associated with women too,

Primary school teacher.
Nurse
Nursery Nurse
Childminder

All gender neutral job titles. All seen traditionally as woman's jobs, so people still make assumptions about that.

What’s the bob riddle?

But today gay couples can and do marry, can do have children, are seen as a family(as they should). There isn't just one possible answer.

I think this is what DD was struggling with and why she didn't just come up with mum immediately. At 11y, when her school did this initially, that would have been her first answer. Now she is older and knows more about other family models in today's climate and the need to be inclusive of everyone - she thought more and was trying to come up with so many other options.

I knew what this riddle would be before I opened the thread (although the word "surgeon" is used in the version I'd read).

Me, 45, thought they were same sex parents.
Ds1, 14, said the grandfather was the doctor and was talking about the dad.
Ds2, 11, thought they were same sex parents.
We're all shocked at our gender stereotype.
Dh, who has heard the one about pilots knew the answer! I'm never going to hear the last of it, the time he was right!

What’s the bob riddle?

A surgeon, a lawyer and a mechanic are in a room. A detective is next door. The detective hears someone shout "no Bob" followed by a gun shot. The detective rushes in and immediately arrests Bob. How did he know which one was Bob?

Clearly the answer is the detective knew which one was Bob because there were 2 women and only 1 man in the room - Bobbie Gentry aside "Bob" not being a common girls' name.

Lord only knows why that would be difficult but apparently the expected (wrong) answer, according to some feminists on here will be - how could the detective know? because everyone is so biased and sexist they think only men can be surgeons, lawyers or mechanics so there would be 3 men in the room.

Re the BOB riddle - most people would make the assumption that Bob was a man's name, and not many will see it as a woman's name - and the bias would come from there. I would be likely to do so. I definitely wouldn't make an assumption that a lawyer was always a man - though DH is one, most of his colleagues are women

The supposed bias in the Bob riddle is not that Bob is a man's name but that all of the characters are men so the detective can't tell which of the surgeon, lawyer or mechanic is Bob.

I read it and got it straight away. Thought maybe it was because I saw it on feminism board so had that bias in my head already. So I just asked dp, didn't mention where I'd seen it. He got it straight away. Ds, at only 1, is too young to ask! Interesting though.

My 13 year old son got it in about 2 seconds.

Will have to try the other 2 tomorrow.

For all of you saying that this is linguistic bias, and everyone knows that doctors can be women, the point isn't that we don't KNOW that doctors can be women, of course we know, but that we have an unconscious bias to assume man when someone says the word doctor, or surgeon.

This is thoroughly backed up by the example given of the children asked to draw pictures:

draw a firefighter
draw a doctor/surgeon
draw a fighter pilot

nearly every single child drew them as male.

For all of you saying that this is linguistic bias, and everyone knows that doctors can be women, the point isn't that we don't KNOW that doctors can be women, of course we know, but that we have an unconscious bias to assume man when someone says the word doctor, or surgeon.

Those who suggested linguistic bias it's to do with the repeated mention of father and son. Which is independent of the association of doctor or surgeon with men. That is why some people have tested it with using daughter instead of son.

sorry, Lweji, what I meant was, people are dismissing it and saying it is nonsense and everyone knows doctors can be women, and this shows nothing.
My point is that when you take out the linguistic bias, and use other means, people STILL think men first when you say doctor.

Recommending Horrid Henry books to everyone on this thread whose DC are the right age.

It’s great. Female doctor, Mum has a female boss, Dad makes the packed lunches etc etc.

IME it’s easy to find children’s books with good role models for feisty young girls. Much much harder to find children’s books with good role models and shared parenting by the older generation (ie the mums and dads in the books).

I didn't get it, I am utterly ashamed of myself! ☹ I'll try it on my 2 boys and dp tomorrow.

I didn’t get it when I first heard it AND it was in an unconscious bias teaching session, so my first guess was that it was a gay couple and my second guess was a birth father and an adoptive father - I was being v open minded to all options, showing how I didn’t have unconscious bias - and I just forgot about, y’know, women

My 16 year old DS said "stepdad?!" He reckons it's because he personally, is closer to his stepdad than his real dad but I'm not buying that one...

Will ask primary aged DD and DS when they wake up tomorrow...🤞🏻

Horrid Henry as female role models? hmm, not sure that I would agree with that considering that the 2 central characters are boys who hate girls and are, you know, horrible!

My nearly 7yo DS got this right when I asked him today. Think he was a little surprised at how pleased I was!

Well tried it on the ds's this morning the 4 year old guessed 2 dad's and the 10 year old was completely stumped! I've failed miserably. Not yo send to do and the work men and see what they come up with.

My 6 yr old dd just said "well obviously that man is the woman's husband". 😀

My dp got it, second guess though, but he got it! I will hang my head in shame for the rest of the day.

Ds6 and dd11 both got it straight away and looked at me like I’m stupid!

Lass; I know that's the supposed bias. But I don't think it works as the solution is so obvious that there must be only one man.

The detective rushes in and immediately arrests Bob. How did he know which one was Bob?
Just asked my DD this and, looking at me like I am an idiot, she replied
‘Because he’s got a gun in his hand’
She’ll go far that girl.

My mum asked me this when I was a teenager and I’m ashamed to say I got it wrong. I was so shocked at myself! The language may well influence you to try and think of a male relative, but surely that’s a mirror to society where all animals are automatically “he” etc.

Also I think if you gave the exact same riddle but instead of surgeon, said nurse, a lot more people would get it straight away.