The biggest GRA issue with 'the public'

[FusionChefGeoff]

As I see it, is that the vast majority of Joe Public have no concept of the trans umbrella and that 80-90% (or whatever the stat) retain their penis.

I really think every public campaign / appearance needs to focus on this.

A huge number of TWAW allies are labouring under the old definition of transgender - assume TW have transitioned with full surgery - and I would bet my bottom dollar would do a swift about turn when they realised the new reality.

And yes, those just realizing the full extent of this now, it's scary and intimidating and seems like a huge project to take on. But if we don't do it then it won't get done at all, and those changes will become the new norm.

My DH as well is doing what most men IME seem to do

Nod and agree
Say yes this is awful
blah blah
And he thinks that
BUT
I think he has subconsciously filed this under "women's issue not my problem" in his head
Loads of men seem to do this > houseowrk, child stuff, I found out at work recently anythign related to charity has this effect on them...
I suspect this is the case with a lot of men. Yes sounds awful mmm

Like all women's issues

It is reported / registered / approached as OUR problem and for US to sort out
Not a problem for all of society which of course all women's issues are

I can’t pinpoint what tipped me over the edge - I think it was the All Women Shortlists

My big concern is that the targeting of the word woman has legal and strategic purpose to AWAs, and is not just to save feelings. And how to help people see that.

agree

something I've heard as a counter argument is "but in Europe, they are less obsessed with with sex segregation".

I have no idea about that, but AFAIC we have reams of history here to show us why sex segregated facilities are a good idea - and some people don't seem to know that women didn't even have public toilets in the past.

people really need to hear that explanation of "if a 13 year old girl sees a man in the swimming pool changing room, she has a right to report at the moment".

Thanks, chrysanthemums. Apart from Aimee Challoner, I know nothing about any of the others and Google isn't throwing up much. How can I find out more about them?

I managed to make a slight dent in my husband's stance on this issue the other day... he's pretty liberal and I thought for a while he might be super-woke about this (which was very upsetting obviously)
BUT he hadn't thought about prisons or refuges (was focussed on toilets) he didn't know about the Green Party shenanigans and hadn't considered that trans was appropriating the language of the struggle of intersex people... there was a lot of cognitive dissonance going on so I'm going to have to slowly slowly drip feed more to avoid a bounce back. I think once I've broached the cotton ceiling thing that'll be him but I think it was too much to talk about the other day.

Essentially he's got most of his info on trans from the trans lobby working through liberal social media and not looked into it more broadly.

It took me a while to understand the appropriation of language and its effect.

What really got me was Danielle Moscato and an article on Medium where a transwomen said if women where triggered by a penis in their changing room they should get therapy. Unfortunate I can't remember the name of the writer.

I mean, I might contribute to a crowdfunder to find a therapist with the magical ability to help that person develop some empathy...

Sadly the Guide leaders/parents who don't have a problem think "they are just children" (whose parents are transing them) or "oh nobody will mind".

an article on Medium where a transwomen said if women where triggered by a penis in their changing room they should get therapy.

Which is interesting given how "triggering" some TRAs find the mere mention of the word 'breastfeeding'.

VickyEadie yes and definitions of the word woman

Maybe the next campaign should be lots of women breastfeeding at the gym in the changing rooms.

It is hard to get people to give a shit about groups they don't belong to.

How did it work in th 80s that loads of white people in the UK gave a shit about apartheid in South Africa?

Well, there weren't as many white people as black people, and a lot of them had been brought up to be liberal and caring - and they shared attributes with the black people they knew (e.g. if you were a journalist/teacher and saw how badly black journalists/teachers were treated, or you were a white mother and saw how black mothers were treated).
But there weren't screams all across the liberal media of "reverse racism" in the way there are of "transphobia". I'm sure there were in the state-censored S. African media though.

I used to be completely at ease sharing spaces with post op/mid op process transsexuals.

The point at which I became less comfortable with that was the point at which i started seeing them continue to display male patterns of aggressive behaviour.

And when some began to claim that they were literally women.

Because at that point the trust had gone.

Well, there weren't as many white people as black people, and a lot of them had been brought up to be liberal and caring - and they shared attributes with the black people they knew (e.g. if you were a journalist/teacher and saw how badly black journalists/teachers were treated, or you were a white mother and saw how black mothers were treated).
But there weren't screams all across the liberal media of "reverse racism" in the way there are of "transphobia". I'm sure there were in the state-censored S. African media though.

I have dim memories as a kid about how you simply wouldn't buy South African products and people took the piss out of a Cape advert that showed white people picking the apples. I also remember the alternative scenes were thriving and had a conscience. There were shows like Spitting Image and Not The Nine O'clock News which would take the piss out of racists and the alternative music also was very worthy, etc, etc.

It's strange how that was turned around in the 1990s with retroracism, retrosexism, classism (mocking 'chavs' became accrptable) all under the guise of 'irony' and the alternative scenes started to be commercialised into 'Cool Britainia' with Glastonbury being televised, etc. The UK underground lost its identity and moral compass at the same time.

Today all these woke young muppets are probably mindlessly banging on about pronouns in the way it was drummed into me to not buy South African as a kid. But the sad thing is that they don't realise they are supporting the status quo, even reversing progress, although they believe themselves to be progressive. I wonder how we change that. Their misdirected moral outrage is doing huge damage.

My husband only really took it on board with the sport angle.

It would useful too for someone to make the point that trans ideology is or is going to be, taught in schools.

Because at that point the trust had gone.

I don't think I ever had trust personally. Just suppressed discomfort and the desire not to be mean, along with a chafing irritation of a liberty being taken, which again, was suppressed as part of not wanting to be mean.

Also the 'do they pass or not' issue is not fixed. Some people won't notice, some people will. Some pass most of the time, some not so much, some not at all. Surely drawing a line across something as arbitrary and subjective as 'passing' is doomed to failure? Isn't it also unfair towards those who do not pass but are less of a threat than some who do?

New, it occurs to me how soft mainstream comedy is these days. I'm old enough to remember the rise of angry comics like Ben Elton - no matter what you thought of him, he punched up at the establishment and crackled with rage. Now he writes tedious children's books (as does Baddiel, Clary and of course the juggernaut that is Walliams). Even Little Britain, which I couldn't stand, wasn't afraid to be mean. The writers of the League of Gentlemen said recently that there's no way they could write now what then did then. Spitting Image could never happen now. HIGNFY seems pointlessly banal.

Are we actually better for it, I wonder? Is anyone really taking the elites to task? I don't want us to go back to punching down, that's for sure, but if even Private Eye won't comment on this other than sideways, we are in, to quote Monty Python, a silly place.

silentcrow

I don't think we are in a better place. There is a dearth of creativity and energy or any will to stick it to 'the man'.

It seems the youth think the most rebellious thing they can do is rail against mums and grandmothers.

I watched the Life of Brian (although before my time obvs) again the other day and there is nothing that witty, savage or daring going on in just about any artform.

The only place you can go for that kind of brilliance today is Mumsnet. Which is ironic considering the youth think of us as the enemy.

Because at that point the trust had gone

I meant trust in the general sense that I didn't go around assuming total strangers wished me harm. If someone s going about their private business quietly, I generally don't see them as a threat.

This whole business has changed that though.