Being openly gender critical

[Frankenterfer]

The Ocado issue has made me peak for the hundredth time and I've just posted this on Facebook and perhaps I've not had enough coffee yet but for once I am not worried about what other people will think.

I wonder if it will disappear like the last article I shared...

[LittlePearl]

Hello ThirdAttempt and welcome!

I lurked for ages too, while I was trying to get my head round it all. I don't post a lot because so many other posters seem to say things far more succinctly and articulately than I can, but I'll add something to a discussion now and then.

I'm not on FB or Twitter so don't have the worry of how much to say on either of them, but I have become much more forthright in conversations with friends and family. I live in a rural area and am in my 50s so our friends here are possibly not in the bubble to quite the same extent as those in the bigger cities.

I drank too much last night and said more than I had planned to our friends at the pub - pleased to say all responses were very positive, although most of them didn't know anything about self id, etc. My husband's really on board so he was chipping in too, it made it easier to 'come out' .

[ThirdAttempt]

Hi LittlePearl and thanks for the welcome.

I've raised the self-ID debate, using in particular the GG policy and changing rooms as examples, to three close friends (separately) in RL in recent months. None of them were remotely aware beforehand and all three were positive to varying degrees. I mentioned to all three that this whole debate was just below the surface and hadn't yet hit mainstream but that it was only a matter of time.

Now that it is starting to reach a mass audience, with Posie Parker appearing on national TV about her billboard poster and with the related press coverage, it seems that the comments BTL are overwhelmingly GC. My view is that being openly GC will become easier and easier.

It seems to me that the whole GC narrative is fast becoming a race against time. Does the population at large become informed enough, and hopefully GC enough, to make the politicians, CEOs and university vice-chancellors stop and think in time? Or will changes to the law on self-ID and policies on women-only spaces be ushered in by the woke before the masses are aware of the issues?

[HermioneWeasley]

Race against time is a great description - the consultation closes in 3 weeks. We have to peak trans the nation in 3 weeks!

[Charliethefeminist]

Lol at 'my own personal adrian'
We all need a pet Adrian so that we can display our convincing wares so convincingly

[LittlePearl]

Oooompa just posted this on another thread - it's excellent. m.youtube.com/watch?v=sowoe71lB6A

I've just sent it to one of the people I spoke to last night, I think it covers everything in a very coherent and accessible way and coming from a transexual immediately dodges the 'transphobic bigot' bullet.

[BeyondAdultHumanFemale]

I have a friend who has been vocally pro self ID - not directly to me but I've seen her commenting on local news articles. This week she has quietly liked a news article I shared, and my "woman" tshirt profile picture...

[arranfan]

Here's one perspective on people's sense of job security. There have been so many modifications to the Welfare State's safety-net that I don't know anyone who thinks that it would provide for them if they lost a job and couldn't readily pick up another one.

We have a class known as the precariat - living from one tranche of income to the next and worrying endlessly when that income will disappear.

A reviewer criticised Snyder's On Tyranny as less of a scrutiny of tyranny itself and more of an essay about how we might stop it from happening. The reviewer argues that Snyder's concerns about needing to comply with authoritarian demands to retain a job and sense of social security are misplaced and any equivalences are false.

“Do not obey in advance,” (Snyder) says. “Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given.” After Hitler came to power, many if not most Germans voluntarily offered their obedience to his regime. We should heed this warning and refuse to do so ourselves. And certainly, the millions of state servants who ran Germany did indeed rush to join the Nazi party to save their jobs. Later on, few opposed the growing antisemitism of the regime or its genocidal outcome. But Snyder forgets the degree of coercion to which they were subjected. It was no easy thing to risk your job when over a third of the workforce was unemployed, as it was in 1933. Hundreds of thousands of Nazi stormtroopers were roaming the streets beating up and killing the Social Democrats and Communists who were the regime’s main opponents. Up to 200,000 people, overwhelmingly those on the political left, were thrown into concentration camps and brutally mistreated. The great mass of Germans did not obey in advance: they obeyed when tyranny had already set up its tent.

I don't think it's overblown. There's a thread on AIBU about someone who reports that she and her colleagues are being pressured to wear an icon on their lanyards by their boss. They don't feel they can complain to HR without i) angering their boss; ii) running the risk of HR lecturing them for not being supportive. (Not the issue, they're supportive but don't feel the need to wear the icon.)

Do you think any of the lower ranks of female staff in Credit Suisse would feel supported and able to criticise Pip Bunce and the way PB flouts a dress code that would probably bring them a severe reprimand for transgressing? Do you think all of the women there are happy about what has happened to their facilities?

Look at Kennedy and the TRAs who are trying to get GC staff ousted from university posts.

You don't need a visible army in the streets if you know you're colleagues and various people are ready to police your language/thoughts and go after your livelihood. Look at Adrian Harrop's activities in re: Labour appointments.

We are being asked to be obedient if we have to accept things that we know to contravene science, law, and reason itself. We have our compliance compelled if we are instructed to deny our experience and pretend that we do not see any safeguarding implications for women and children.

[Tellin]

My close friends are all GC. But I recently started posting a few GC things on FB and got rounded on - called transphobic, bigoted, told it was hate speech (it wasn't). And this from people who've known me a long, long time telling me that I don't seem kind or intelligent any more. Charming. It's the smug 'if you don't agree with me, you're a bigoted moron' approach I can't stand. As if I don't have a viewpoint worth listening to.

This includes a few friends who are gay/lesbian. I desperately want to ask how they don't see transgenderism as inherently homophobic but I daren't ask.

[ThefusilliJerry]

If anyone gets snippy with me about it I tend to point to the fact that ds has asd and is thus a very black and white thinker, and especially vulnerable to being distressed by ideas about being born in the wrong body. Therefore I tell him very clearly that is not possible.
That tends to shut them up.

[bluetitsaretits]

Hi there wonderful wimmin.
Long time lurker, first time poster. Up until today I have felt that I have nothing to add to the debate as it is always covered so eloquently here, but as a result of standing up against self ID on fb last night and losing a friend as a result I now feel the need to come on here and say thank you for providing a refuge of sanity in an insane world.
I have shared quite a few GC posts (initially getting a tumbleweed response, the occasional decent discussion) but have tried my best not to be too confrontational on social media as I have many 'woke' friends connected with my work, and also rely on it for my self employment.
Last night, a woman who I was very good friends with (but haven't seen IRL for quite a while) posted a clip of Posie on This Morning. She basically said that Posie is an arsehole and Eamon Holmes did great. I just couldn't let this BS go unchallenged and commented that I had an issue with him saying that there was no problem with a male police officer self IDing as a woman carrying out intimate body searches on women. She commented (as did one of her friends) that she would have no problem with this. I said that women should have the option to say no to being touched by a man. This eventually led to me explaining that as someone who has experience of sexual assault I would find it distressing to placed in a situation where I was vulnerable (eg smear test) without the option to say no to being touched by someone with a penis. She will not acknowledge my point of view on this or discuss the matter further. I'm deeply saddened by the whole episode- not because I have lost the 'friendship' of someone who turns out not to be the compassionate, supportive feminist she likes to appear, but because we have previously worked together on projects to help girls and young women assert their boundaries and their right to consent!!!
On the plus side, a mutual friend was supportive of my point and that friend that said she would have no problem with being searched/ smear tested etc by a man is now aware self ID and the number of 'women with penises'. I told her to google Karen White, so her eyes may yet be opened.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling rant but I felt the need to unload to some sympathetic women- goddess knows, we need each other right now!
Oh yes, and I'm also posting to say thank you for being here and fighting so hard- all power to the mumsnet warriors!

[WokerThanWoke]

Crikey bluetits, the cognitive dissonance of your friend there

Bravo to you all posting on FB. It's clearly having an effect and it sounds like the MN I'm Spartacus threads, except it's more like:

I'm Spartacus
I think I might be Spartacus



Though it's unbelievable that we have to converse in the manner of the Handmaid's tale and try and parse if the other Handmaid is saying "under his eye" with a meaningful look in her eye or not.

[bluetitsaretits]

I know, woke (haven't sussed out how to bold yet!)- it's nuts isn't it!
It's so enraging having to 'watch my mouth' like a good girl. I am sarcastic and opinionated but with a kind heart and a sense of humour. I should not have to walk on eggshells around old friends that know me well enough to know I'm not some kind of nazi, but here we are!

[WokerThanWoke]

You just put next to the word or sentence you want bolded.

blue is blue minus the spaces. Hope that helps!

[bluetitsaretits]

Thanks woke ooh I think I got it!

[expatia]

I would struggle I think to discuss it on social media as much, as I want to, partly because I avoid Twitter/FB confrontation generally and also because as one other poster said, I am somewhat dependent on social media for self employment. I do feel bad about that as I really do think there is a need to speak up, but I am also sometimes unconvinced social media is the best forum as people aren't always as reasonable in their responses. I am going to talk to people much more about it in person though.

I do agree with what's being said here that this is going to become easier, people are starting to become more aware of how unbelievable a lot of it is and the depth of the implications.

[Theweasleytwins]

I know the phrase 'cis woman' but are men 'cis men'?

[Frankenterfer]

Is there any blurb and link I could post on the consultation?

[GingerCake2018]

I haven't spoken to even my closest friends about my gender critical views. I certainly wouldn't post on FB. I work as a HCP and feel my registration and job could be vulnerable as a result, and this is what is holding me back.

However, some time ago before I discovered Mumsnet and fwr, I mentioned an article in the news, about a trans athletea, I wondered if my friend had come across them, turns out this trans athlete had ruined my friend athletic career, and she was very vocal and angry about it. So I think I am going to tentatively bring up GRA, GG etc next time I see her, she has daughter's too, so hopefully will have similar view, or at least be open to GC views.

[bluetitsaretits]

expatia -good point that social media is not always the best way to get the info across. I don't socialise much these days due to lack of time and energy but this is a good incentive to try and get out more and speak to people in real life!

[arranfan]

@Feankenterfer Fair Play for Women's Consultation guide and how to fill in the form (which questions to skip and which to answer)

fairplayforwomen.com/how-to/

[arranfan]

Gah that was @Frankenterfer fairplayforwomen.com/how-to/

[Frankenterfer]

Thank you @arranfan

[TransposersArePosers]

As I said earlier I don't post anything remotely political or GC on facebook, but have pushed myself out of my comfort zone since watching Posie Parkers's rant to talk to people IRL

I have forced myself to mention the GRA to people and all except one knew nothing about it. I tend to start with - so, what are your views on the potential law change regarding the GRA? And then go in with my GC stance and back it up with examples from the wonderful women on these threads.

Posie's rant gave me the courage to say to one friend, who I was talking to about this and who said that the suicide rate is high in trans teenagers 'Compared to which other group?' and she said 'Good question! I don't know!' and has since posted the FPFW link on her FB page.

It's hard, but getting easier and I know that if I don't do something I will wish that I had. Courage calls to courage!

[PTSD1]

www.instagram.com/p/CIyXJmolb3-/ Cartoon Network teaching gender ideology to kids

[Wbeezer]

I've not said anything very GC, apart from a few mild comments to very safe people.
What I have noticed is that very TWAW posts that pop up occasionally get very few likes so I feel there a lot of people who are sitting on the fence or are quietly GC