Humanists UK's GRA Consultation Response

[arranfan]

LGBT Humanists UK have pre-filled the answers for you.

My, very biased, interpretation would be to see that it sings, "The Wheels On The Bus" after throwing women under the wheels.

However, there is rather more nuance to it than my summary indicates and your response might be different. And for all I know the membership has been fully consulted and is in full-throated support.

LGBT Humanists has responded in support of this change, submitting that gender dysphoria should not be considered a medical disorder and that its classification as such has negative consequences for transgender people, both in terms of the legal process of transitioning and in encountering social stigma and prejudice. At the same time, LGBT Humanists notes that this is not proposed to – and should not – lead to any reduction in legal protections on grounds of sex.

Page with explainer and pdf link: humanism.org.uk/2018/09/25/lgbt-humanists-responds-to-gender-recognition-act-consultation/

humanism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/LGBT-Humanists-Gender-Recognition-Act-consultation-response.pdf pdf

If it said "legal and practical protections" it might be a reasonable statement. Albeit naive.

If gender dysphoria is not a medical disorder then transgenderism is a lifestyle choice and it is completely unreasonable and disproportionate to change how society is organised in an attempt to meet that lifestyle choice.

I've just seen that @lecanardnoir123 is also a little sceptical about Humanists UK's GRA Consultation response:

My mind boggles at the blithe acceptance of the lobbied insistence that gender dysphoria is not a psychological condition. Just what is it then? This idiocy will harm children most of all.

twitter.com/lecanardnoir/status/1045366647131971585

The thread that is on is worth a look: twitter.com/Humanists_UK/status/1045349037577314307

Discussion at www.ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/womens-rights-and-the-proposed-changes-to-the-gender-recognition-act/. Not sure where to post this but thought it is also trying to be measured.

Corrected link for Littlemouseroar link ^^ (stray full stop)

ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/womens-rights-and-the-proposed-changes-to-the-gender-recognition-act/

Why are the humanists in favour of a policy that will essentially allow anyone for any reason to re-write the sex on their birth certificate and tamper with what should actually be seen as a medico-legal document?
Are statements of fact no longer of any worth to our society?

How can anyone take seriously an organisation someone had to leave for saying women don't have penises?

Exactly! In other countries they're still struggling to enforce birth registration so that we have decent data about selective foeticide and infanticide of girls. Birth registration is a gateway to basic human rights, especially for women and girls.

Without universal birth and death registration it is impossible to accurately attack child marriage, maternal mortality and neonatal mortality.

Universal birth registration (and death registration) is essential for the protection of women and girls who are otherwise invisible. Without that all important birth certificate, young people are reliant upon others for verification of age. Child marriage can't be investigated for a non-person or where there is no proof of age. There are examples where the tactic of burning a girl’s birth certificate is used to control and bar her access to higher education. Without a birth certificate, girls are vulnerable to predation by child marriage and any unregistered child is on the margins that make it easy for them to be taken up by human traffickers associated with slavery.

How are we supposed to make progress with essential economic and social policies if the gateway function of universal objective birth records can be opened up to revision and equivocation?

With the greatest of respect to Humanists UK - I find it hard to believe that they have fully considered the implications for women and girls.

If gender dysphoria is not a medical disorder then transgenderism is a lifestyle choice

Just like being gay then

Thanks for the correction

If men can rewrite their birth certificates there will be no way for is to prove just how much of a disastrous decision this is and disturbing history can be wiped al la Jane/ John

Just like being gay then

I doubt you'd have support for making that argument.

Jane Clare Jones offers a useful discussion: GAY RIGHTS AND TRANS RIGHTS – A COMPARE AND CONTRAST

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

We are entirely in favour of one sex being enabled to break down the legal distinction between them and the opposite sex, whilst being fully supportive of the rights of the other sex to maintain that distinction.

We trust the government will be able to both keep intact, and simultaneously erase, the distinction between the sexes.

We are sure this is possible. We look forward to achieving it after Britain has both left, and also remained, in the EU.

Best, the Humanist Society x

Any "skeptic" who believes in gender identity ideology about what basically amounts to gendered souls is utterly fucking ridiculous.

The problem is not that gender dyphoria not be designated as a medical condition, the problem is that gender dysphoria is not required to be transgender, or more specifically, a woman.

Just to be a cross dresser is an acceptable criteria for saying you are a woman. In fact, there are no requirements, except to say that you are.

I'd rather believe in God than believe in this bullshit. At least there is an area of 'what if' with the God stuff.

barracker

There's a phrase that floats around religious circles - "When one ceases to believe in God, one doesn't believe in nothing, one believes in anything." Not sure who said it.

I always thought it was a bit of a sharp thing to say, and not a fair illustration of the atheists and humanists of my acquaintance. But the Humanist UK response to the Genderist religion is actually causing me to think there might be something in that quote.

I think the Humanists UK may have been groomed into believing this just like every other organisation....
Why the heck do you need to change the sex on your birth certificate unless you are intersex (and this is diagnosed later), and I understand the arguments that people who have physically altered their body and removed sex organs in order to be seen as the opposite sex should have legal recognition of that process having been undergone. Still not sure you should be able to actually erase the original birth sex, though, or pretend the facts of your actual sex don't exist. I feel like changes should be documented but the sex of one's birth cannot just be altered without any supplemental information being provided, and certainly not in a process that requires zero evidence and is open for anyone to abuse.
Push for a "gender" bit where you can add things like "non-binary" if it's so important to have legal documentation of someone's subjective perception of their gender, but don't touch the biologically based category of SEX. Everyone is born in a sexed body. Your doctor/midwife writes it down. Your doctor/midwife can provide supplemental facts if they have new information that you have an intersex variation, or have undergone full medical transition. Facts objectively assessed by professionals recorded on a legal document about the material state of a person's reproductive system we know as "sex."

Ah, just searched and it was Chesterton. Who has had outings before on these boards in regards to this issue.

LGBT Humanists has responded in support of this change, submitting that gender dysphoria should not be considered a medical disorder

Isnt it up to medical professionals to decide what is a medical disorder?

Or are we all allowed to do it?

If it's not a medical condition, it no longer needs treatment/funding on the NHS, and people who wish to have surgery/medication would need to save up for it and get it done privately. Perhaps this way would act as more of a safeguard against youth going down the medical route, as they'd need to commit to saving for years (not something teenagers are particularly skilled at, IME).

Just like being gay then

Gay people aren't making claims about themselves which are physically impossible.

gender dysphoria should not be considered a medical disorder

If it's not a medical disorder it doesn't require medical treatment. How do they explain that, according to genderist ideology, children need to be medicated with puberty blockers at the first sign of gender dysphoria, followed by surgical and hormonal treatments as soon as they are adults?

Also according to genderist ideology, adults who have gender dysphoria (or are just 'transgender' with no dysphoria) don't need to be medicated at all.

It throws the small percentage who have gender dysphoria and need proper counselling/possible medical treatment under the bus for the sake of those who have no intention transitioning being able to gain access to women's spaces without question. I worry for those who do need treatment.