Nadine dorries

[poshme]

Has not drunk the kool aid.

Good for you, Nadine.

jellyslice

It's not that I'm ceasing to be gender critical because of Dorries has said something sensible but it does make me re-examine my stance when some of the more outspoken allies are as far removed from my natural bedfellows as possible.

Still, much like Ihaventgottimeforthis, having continually gone through this process makes me more certain that a woman is an adult female human and even more determined to be vocal about it so it's not all bad.

As jellyslice so eloquently says, the fact that there are many women who completely disagree with Dorries, who don't like her politics or personality, is precisely why this is significant. The basis of all our freedoms is a clear understanding of who we are. All we have in common is our biology. And it's on that basis that we are systematically disadvantaged. Whatever our opinions are.

It’s the blind adoration of certain politics that have led to this. Much like JJ saying she didn’t want support or money from Tories.

I wouldn't vote for Dorries based on this, and this alone though. However, it's good to know that she stands up for the definition of women.

However, I no longer accept crumbs from the table.

Meh, it's great. Nice one Nadine. I'm single issue so I'm completely thrilled.

Oh, good grief no, I wouldn't vote for her based on this alone. But I'm fine with another voice pointing out the bleedin' obvious.

It's a case of illustrating that acknowledging basic reality isn't a partisan position.

Blindly following people or organisations we "trust" has got us into this mess. The culture of "well if Stonewall/The Guardian/Labour/Owen Jones* says it's ok then it must be!" without questioning it led to this nonsense in the first place.

Whilst Hoey and Dorries aren't my kind of gals, they don't pull their punches or worry about hurting men's people's feelings or sensibilities, nor are they afraid to take an unpopular position or being labelled as unkind. Isn't that the problem with the anonymous concerned cabinet members?

(Only joking about Owen- no-one's listened to him in years)

Good for Nadine. This doesn’t mean I endorse her other views but I’m not going to refuse to acknowledge her just because most lefty MPs are too stupid / cowardly / busy building their careers to speak up.

Thanks Nadine, welcome on board.

It's a fact - women are adult human females - Nadine is a woman. Nadine has (IMO) odious political views and wants that clown Boris Johnson to be PM - but she is correct in saying she is a woman.

We need all women to SPEAK UP.

And men. You speak up too!!

This is the modern day women's suffrage.

Nadine is a woman and knows what a woman is. She is a tough cookie.

Too many are trying to be nice and swerved by others telling them to check their privilege etc. Trans activists and their followers are very quick to highlight any hurt feelings. A lot of politicians need to have a good look at which way is up.

It's good to disagree by way of debate. This will happen time and again. Because it's complex. It's good that these boards show that, that we are the opposite of #nodebate.

This has to unite women, even the women you don’t agree with or like.

One of the biggest issues we have in society at the moment is tribal politics, following something because your ‘side’ believes in it and refusing to engage in critical thinking.

Nadine Dorries is a woman who is allowed to have an opinion on current issues that affect her because of her sex.

Reposting this one:

And can i just give a massive high five to Posie for getting so many people talking about this

Bloody fantastic job.

Dr Harrop shot himself in the foot getting that poster removed - far more publicity that if it had just sat at a Liverpool junction minding it's own business

*than

Well done Nadine.

I could not vote for any party that embraced this misogynistic ideology. It has become the most important issue for me. More important than Brexit, austerity, immigration, or any of the other issues.

If self-ID becomes law then Britain will be heading back to the Dark Ages, erasing and disenfranchising over half the population - because it's not just women at risk, but children, hospital patients, the elderly, all vulnerable people. Once one group have their rights erased, the same will happen to others'. Racism, homophobia, xenophobia will be more easily legitimised. Under His Eye is not that far from Seig Heil.

So, right now, I'm willing to vote for almost anybody who promises to scrap any suggestion of self-ID, and to ensure that women's rights - adult human female rights - are enshrined in law.

God help me if that party is the NF! Then I really won't have anybody to vote for!

It is probably inevitable that political outliers are the first to speak up. They have less to lose. But the more people who are publicly sceptical of self-id, the more others will feel able to voice their own concerns.

So great that Nadine is speaking out.

The sky is blue, water is wet. That is true if it’s your best mate or worst enemy saying it.

Thanks for this thread. It's helpful.

Betty/Jelly

Thanks for explaining that. It really is simple when you think about it.

I think what we can glean from this is that people are cowards. Of course Nadine Dorries can stand up and say I'm a woman and that's that. Who from her social circle/political circle is going to say 'what about the transgender people?' No-one.

If someone from the left wing does that, they know there is every possibility they will lose their job/their friends etc. Most people will never ever have the balls to do that so they sit there nodding their head and going 'yes yes, everyone who wants to be a woman is a woman, penis or no penis'.

I myself am a teacher, luckily at a school where most of this gender stuff is not an issue (99% of the kids are from Muslim families, so obviously trans stuff would not be a big priority there). But we still get the 'inclusivity' talks, it does feel mainly like lip service, but I nod along, I am not seriously going to risk my career for this. I worked hard to get to even this meagre position, and I don't fancy going back to being skint and struggling.

I'm not going to stand up and say 'transwomen are women'. But I'm also not going to come out as gender critical in a major way and risk my children growing up in poverty. Yes, I am a coward. But I'm also practical.

Maybe if I had a rich husband or family, it would be different.

The fact that your politics, philosophy, beliefs, whatever, are so different to these other women's is critically important! Because the only things that you have in common is that you are ADULT FEMALE HUMANS. That is the whole point of our campaigning!

This exactly!