Ffs rape trials

[MIdgebabe]

first we hadn't lowmconviction rates because he juries don't want to harm a young mans future, poor petums , and now this. Have things always been this bad for women... we carry on making slow but steady progress 2 steps forward one step back. www.theguardian.com/law/2018/sep/24/prosecutors-rape-cases-cps-crown-prosecution-service-conviction-rates

I think it's good that they have put it up to 74 but why have an upper age limit for collecting data about rape?

I think the survey for self reporting was up,to age 59 (now age 74 since 2017) but police stats are for all ages

I know that's what the survey is for midge

I'm not arguing, just explaining.

I am too slow in typing and posting !

Ereshkigal, it's a good question why the age limit is as it is. It's important to remember with any kind of research collection like this there will be ethical considerations that have to be taken into account.

You'd need to read their methodology to find out the reason for the age limit but they will have had to take into account the ethics of collecting certain data say from vulnerable groups.

I have no knowledge of the methodology of the CSEW, btw, just trying to present a view of how research is constrained/conducted more generally.

And to stress the point that rape of a woman over 59 will be included in police statistics if reported. As upthread there was a statement that it wouldn't be included in "national statistics" and I felt it was important to make the distinction between the CSEW and police statistics.

I didn't see any argument...was just trying to add more explanation... ,sorry if I came across aggressive !

You'd need to read their methodology to find out the reason for the age limit but they will have had to take into account the ethics of collecting certain data say from vulnerable groups.

Until last year the upper limit was 59 so I'm not sure I buy the "vulnerable groups". That's really not very old.

I know how research works btw. I'm asking about this specific issue.

Perhaps when Keir Starmer becomes the next Labour prime minister (I wish!) he will do something about this.

I'm not asking you to 'buy' anything Ereshkigal, I've told you you'd need to look up their methodology as I don't know it. Then given vulnerable groups as an example (e.g. under 16s as I mentioned earlier).

Having been to the police to report my stbexh for rape recently, this has really put me off going forward to give a video interview. The officer I saw knew nothing about coercive control and intimate relationships and I had to fight to get them to see that it was actually rape because coercion isn't consent and no consent equals rape. They dismissed me really. I felt like I was making a fuss about nothing.

i'm so sorry scaredofex it is a fact that a lot of police do not take rape seriously - nothing's changed since the women who were raped by John Worbuys were turned away by police as "this is impossible".

I can't say much more on here, but the only reason my friend's rapes were taken seriously (it was her dh who did it) was because police had raided their home and found other illegal porn on his pc. He's written shit loads about wanting to "rape bitches" as well as other stuff (child abuse related.

Men rape women because they can.

scared

Flowers didn't wrk on above post.

Here we are waiting for the Bart Kavanaugh (Supreme Court) hearing on Thursday and I can't tell you how much I admire that woman for coming forward and telling her story of an assault and near miss rape. I wish there was some way I could offer her some support because I doubt if I would have come forward in the same circumstances to be vilified, attacked, made to leave my home, and accused of a running a politically motivated "smear campaign" by the leader of the senate and the president of the usa who by the way are all absolutely certain that the assault took place (otherwise they would call the other guy she said was in the room to give evidence - they are not doing this because they are fairly certain that he will corroborate her story if under oath). The belfast rape trial convinced me finally that I would never advise my daughters to report a rape (I'm sure that is the point of these trials).

I reported my rape 2 months after it happened. I had my phone took off me and had to give access to counselling notes. Once they had read my phone which took about 3 months I had to go to a CPS witness interview. I had googled what happens when someone is arrested for rape. I cope better when I understand the process and was struggling to get answers to my questions from my IDVA so I googled and eventually found a copy of From Report to Court which if I'd been given initially would have helped me understand the process.

I had a huge panic attack at the interview with CPS and felt like I was on trial. Apparently tho I couldn't remember I'd also replied to a txt saying I love you to my ex 24 hours after the rape but I had completely disassociated from it as my brain couldn't cope with it and I was terrified of him too so if I had replied that it was because I didn't want him turning up at my house.

The charges were dropped. I know for a fact he had googled rape porn as he'd borrowed an old phone of mine and it was logged into his google account but it wasn't enough to get to trial.

I honestly don't think I could have coped with trial as I was suicidal at the time so I suppose at least that way he didn't get not guilty which I really could not have coped with.

I live in fear of him doing it again to someone else and check the court listings daily in case he is on there. The way he did it he had planned it and knew exactly what he was doing but I blame myself for being there. He's in prison for stalking me at the moment and will be out shortly and I'm terrified of him carrying on stalking on his release.

The guardian article will only put off more people from coming forward.

It was the hardest thing ever and if I had my time again I would have reported it straight away but I couldn't cope with it and still struggle most days with it suffering PTSD. I just hope that by me reporting it then it might stop him doing it to someone else.

CockapooMum I hope he leaves you alone now and you can find peace. For me the worst bit is the continuing coercive control. That's what I want to stop. I also don't want him coercing anyone else into sex. I'm not sure I could cope with a trial. I just want him to stop what he's doing now. The sexual assaults are historical so I doubt they'll get those charges to stick. I felt like I was on trial when I went to the police. Was told it wasn't rape but if I wanted to report it as rape I could which confused the hell out of me. Women's Aid said it was rape, local sexual assault said it was rape, police said it's not as I didn't say no at any point, and it happened several times over several years. I'm having serious doubt about taking it any further.

cockapoo
Rape trials in this country are a travesty.

It's sickening isn't it? I would never want to put a woman off reporting a rape - I have assisted (in a small way) a friend getting a rape conviction.

But if I'm going to be totally honest, I don't think I'd report a rape now. I'm not sure I'd advise my dd to.

My friend had to be so strong. She was so strong. She was in her 40s when she reported her rapist. They threw stuff at her in court that happened at university - 20+yrs ago. I mean - wtf? How is it allowed?

The woman is still on trial. It's no different from the 70s & 80s.

It's crap.

cockapoo.

The horrific thing about this is it takes no account of the psychology of victims or the manipulativeness of perpetrators.

Victims (particularly where it's acquaintance rape rather than stranger rape) often react psychologically by desperately trying to normalise what's happened - to reduce mental trauma by trying to convince themselves it was just "rubbish sex" or "a miscommunication", so it's not unusual for victims to react as you did, cockapoo, by responding to your ex's text.

Also, there's enough publicity round cases like this these days that perpetrators know the first thing they should do the morning after they've raped a woman is to text her to say "last night was great, hope you had a good time, can't wait to see you again." It would take an incredibly, unbelievably together mental state to text back and say "Actually you raped me and I'm going to the police." Realistically, the best option is not to reply at all and go straight to the police, but a hell of a lot of women are going to be caught up in being drawn into an exchange of texts which can later be used against them in court - even something non-committal like "actually it wasn't great for me, and I don't want you to contact me again" can be used by a defence lawyer to try to establish "reasonable doubt": this wasn't rape, it was just slightly rubbish, but consensual sex.

The deck isn't just stacked, the rapists have taken all the aces out and put them up their own sleeve, and if they drop any on the floor during the investigation, the CPS will pick them up, hand them back and say "sorry, you seem to have dropped something."

Thanks for the flowers

It is so unfair that the perp gets to see all the evidence against them and listen to it all in court so they can then tailor their own evidence to fit. It should be at least equal disclosure where the victim is given much more info.

The criminal justice system is weighted the wrong way in my opinion and not fair at all.

Arghh. The total shit-fest continues.

www.theguardian.com/law/2018/sep/26/rape-prosecutions-plummet-crown-prosecution-service-police

Number of prosecutions drop despite increase in number of reports.

Please, Keir, give up on politics (you're a moderate, you're going to have exactly zero impact within Corbyn's Labour party anyway) and go back to being DPP . Please!

Wtaf is this quote from Allison Saunders
"“Our priority is to continue to work with the police, to bring strong cases and respond to challenges such as the substantial increase in digital evidence that is now a common feature of these cases,” she said. “As ever, prosecutors must make their decisions after testing whether the evidence provides a realistic prospect of conviction, and that it is in the public interest.”"

Surely prosecuting rapists is in the public interest. It makes me SO ANGRT

Everything Allison Saunders has done has undermined the work Starmer did. I'm beginning to wonder if she's one of these "I fear for my sons" type of anti-feminists.

(By "I fear for my sons" I mean the sort of woman who is convinced their poor darlings will be fitted up for rape by some brazen hussy who wants revenge for something or other never quite specified... not those of us who genuinely fear for our sons, as well as our daughters, growing up in an atmosphere of toxic masculinity, increasingly violent porn and male violence of which men are victims as well as women).

Yeah me too fermats
I can't actually believe a woman would behave like this in that post. Idiot.
This plus the disclosure/digital evidence issues means prosecuting rape is going to be nigh on impossible

Yes, what appears to have happened is this:

The police, whether through laziness or being underfunded and overstretched, fucked up a number of prosecutions which hinged upon evidence on social media by not disclosing that evidence to the defence before hand.

Rather than tackle the question of police incompetence, the CPS has instead issued an edict that every rape victim have every detail of her social media use trawled through with a fine toothcomb.

This means that:

1. women, recovering from the trauma of rape, are reluctant to be put through the invasion of privacy;

2. women, who know what a rape trial entails, realise that this level of scrutiny means that somewhere there will be some detail a defence lawyer can twist out of context to smear them - social media becomes the new "you were wearing sexy knickers and weren't a virgin";

and

3. what police force is going to find time to do this? Of course they're now going to "no crime" allegations - because no police force in the country has the time and resources to do this.

So a series of police fuck ups have been turned into a stick to beat women with. Instead of a sensible approach of "investigate social media if good cause to do so arises - for instance, if the defendant shows you some messages the alleged victim sent him, you might go looking for more, we have a blanket "look through every aspect of the victim's life, even though you have no grounds to do so, and doing so as routine is in fact an impossible waste of police time."