No

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

What is it about a No from a women/women that causes so much reaction? It's just a word that conveys a boundary - No, I don't agree with you/No I don't want you near me/ No I feel uncomfortable with you breaking my boundaries eg opening the closed door of a bathroom whilst I am in it. What gives you the right to softly or aggressively not hear my NO?

Because it is seen as “not nice”. The worst thing a woman can be is “not nice” or anything someone else doesn’t want her to be.

Because all the rules of misogyny.

The worst thing a woman can be is “not nice” or anything someone else doesn’t want her to be.

I agree but it's not reasonable because a guy will hear a NO from a guy but not from a woman. He doesn't consider the guy to be not nice, just a guy protecting his territory

Because all the rules of misogyny.

But why do we accept this as a class? It's fucking outrageous that a woman's NO isn't heard by the wilfully deaf. We should take men to court, as a class, for pretending not to hear us.

If feminism could be distilled into a singularity, it would be the word "no". Women asserting their own terms and boundaries. "No" is hated for the same reason feminism is hated.

Socialisation and conditioning... habits are hard to break, but that doesn't mean we can't break them. A bit like child who's never been told 'no' before - you need to shout a lot harder to get through.

Why don't we women take out a class action on the government for example - for refusing to hear a NO from women? I know all the reasons why we have been socialised to compy - but why do we still compy and not fight - legally - for our right to say NO?

And be heard...

Wilful deafness and blindness have to be challenged at the systems level ie organisation and government eg Bunce - why is this male entitled to be heard above women who say No he isn't a woman?

*comply not compy (too much gin tonight!)

But seriously why aren't we challenging more in law as a collective class action....

I feel that the greatest gift I gave to my Daughter was teaching her that she has the right to say No, to anything that made her uncomfortable, for any reason, with no explanation necessary.

I feel that the greatest gift I gave to my Daughter was teaching her that she has the right to say No, to anything that made her uncomfortable, for any reason, with no explanation necessary.

Absolutely awesome - and what if her NO isn't heard and men are wilfully deaf???

If men are willfully deaf, then @genderapostate's daughter will be rightfully outraged, rather than apologising and trying to make amends, as so many girls are raised to.

Exactly Scienceroar 🙂 Actually she’s just been on the phone, She’s just been made Head of Maths at her School, they offered her x-amount, she said No I want Y amount, they agreed. 28 years old and head of Department, I am so unbelievably proud of her.

Often outraged women are labelled as the problem by onlookers eg police/juries- when they are just expressing the rightful rage at being coercively controlled and their boundaries transgressed - classic IPV/male violence. So whilst I applaud individuals' success, it doesn't address the collective issue of when women say NO and are overridden by the deafeningly sound of sexism eg GG et al. Also if women were treated as equal, they wouldn't experience the systemic discrimination that many do at the hands of the welfare systems and the justice system when they reject abusive men

If feminism could be distilled into a singularity, it would be the word "no". Women asserting their own terms and boundaries. "No" is hated for the same reason feminism is hated.

This exactly.

If feminism could be distilled into a singularity, it would be the word "no". Women asserting their own terms and boundaries. "No" is hated for the same reason feminism is hated. That is brilliant Chilli

A wise woman (on here I think) once said- within the first month of a new relationship say no to something minor. His reaction will tell you everything about your future together.

A wise woman (on here I think) once said- within the first month of a new relationship say no to something minor. His reaction will tell you everything about your future together. Indeed. Another good T-shirt slogan. No means No. Get Over It.

We're normally accommodating.The petulant young MRA as probably been spoilt and pandered to when having tantrums (think Spoilt Bastard, Viz) The cross dressing husband's wife may have facilitated this (this is the case of my aunt's sister, who is at every demand of her transvestite husband) They don't like it when not all of us play ball. Absolute respect for all those on the trans widow forum for everything you have put up with by the way and for saying "no"

Saying No to a guy, in whatever context, outs his true colours - their response can be overt or covert - some don't strike straightaway but payback there always is from the Cluster Bs....

I've had it happen twice in the last 9 months in a work context - disagreed with the same guy, he then does a verbal DARVO, makes himself out to be a victim and tries to put words and thoughts in my mind. Also discounts by his actions - very very tricky to spot...

This is on of the few occasions when being an outwardly masculine woman is helpful. I can say no, and disagree, and just be known as "that lesbian bitch" rather than confused/hysterical/over-emotional/probably on her period/shrill/bossy. I mean, I can't disagree as much as my male colleagues, and I still have to behave better and deliver more than they do (and I've noticed what they get away with) but I am not treated as condescendingly as my more feminine workmates.
It's no less infuriating, obviously. Especially as when I point out that X female is right about something and I get this look from the men as if to say "I thought you were on our side!!"
So I'm nowhere near equal to a man in their eyes, but they don't seem to mind if I say no. I have my theories about why this is.

So I'm nowhere near equal to a man in their eyes, but they don't seem to mind if I say no. I have my theories about why this is

I'm curious as to this - would you elaborate and thx for sharing your experience - I just keep seeing men over and over again ignoring women - using them to get elected etc but rarely on their side

I’ve got a great example of this in my family. I’m in my late 30s. My father is an old misogynist (one of my friends described him as the most sexist man she’s ever met).

Three years ago he offered me a large sum of money. I’m on a low income (by choice: I’m doing a job I love) and this would help enormously. So I thought about it for 24 hours. But I said no thank you, because it would come with huge strings attached, notably him working his way into my life and trying to control me, and because my mother m, who is married to him and whose money it therefore also is, didn’t want to make the gift.

Ever since then I have had regular emails telling me how he’s going to give me this money, and he mentions it as the first thing every time we meet or speak (which is thankfully rarely). He has tried to get other members of the family to soften me up, and has even tried to find out my bank details to transfer the money without my consent.

One of the reasons I gave him for saying no was that it was unfair on my mother and siblings that I should get such a sum, and that I didn’t want to start family arguments about money. So he’s decided he’s going to leave me most of his estate in his will. I told him that if he does, I shall simply give it back to my mother as it rightfully belongs to her.

I have tried saying no in every way possible but it only spurs him on. Now he’s wondering why I’ve blocked his emails and calls and refuse to speak to him. He’s asking other family members why I’ve changed so much, who is influencing this poor airhead woman against him?