Did Lemonjello get a reply from EHRC about safeguarding?

[user1471451327]

Planning to respond to consultation and remembered that this person had indicated that they were seeking this clarification but i cannot find an update?

Perhaps you should pm her to ask?

Yes she got a reply saying that the EA does not prohibit normal safeguarding practice (contrary to what the guides claim) I think. It's on the last guide update thread.

Yes I will send a DM because I have ploughed through loads of guide threads and cannot find it

I pm’d you but here it is for anyone else: We note your concern regarding the potential impact of trans inclusive policies of Girl Guiding UK upon other members, and you ask us if they are correct in stating that the Equality Act 2010 (the EA 2010) prohibits the use of risk assessments and other safeguarding procedures.

The exclusion of trans people from membership of organisations and access to benefits and services that they provide would normally constitute unlawful gender reassignment discrimination, unless this is expressly permitted and justifiable by reference to exceptions from the non-discrimination principle. The most relevant here being membership of associations (schedule 16 EA 2010) and the provision of communal accommodation (schedule 23 EA 2010).

As a single-characteristic association for the purposes of schedule 16 of the EA 2010, Girl Guiding UK can choose to refuse membership to trans girls, or choose to admit trans girls as members.

As a provider of communal accommodation for the purposes of schedule 23, paragraph 3, Girl Guiding UK can also choose to exclude or include trans girls. Operating trans inclusive policies is permissible, provided that this is consistent with the rights of others and justifiable. The risk of sex discrimination against other members can be a relevant consideration in this context.

These matters must be approached carefully and sensitively, without prejudice, stereotypes or unwarranted assumptions. We consider that a case-by-case approach to the operation of any exception, including the question of whether reliance on any exception can be objectively justified, will be appropriate and necessary. Where organisations decide to adopt trans inclusive policies and practices, the needs of all members or service users have to be considered in any particular case.

The EA 2010 does not prohibit the use of risk assessments and other safeguarding procedures where warranted in individual cases. Occasionally, it may be necessary to carry out risk assessment and use safeguarding procedures, but whether that is necessary and what form that takes depends on the precise circumstances of each situation.

So this goes against GIrl Guides claim that risk assessments are prohibited by the Equality Act. I have to say, what kind of muppet would think that a law would tell you not to undertake a risk assessment. Or if it did, why wouldn’t you be up in arms about the insanity of the law. “[W]e do allow volunteers’ family members to attend residential events. Such requests are carefully considered by the local commissioner and as a part of the mandatory risk assessment or any trips. However this same process would not apply to a trans girl as this would be a breach of the Equality Act.”

Sorry I can’t do paragraph breaks for some reason.

That EHRC response would seem to blow GG’s statement out of the water. Have you had a response from GGHQ lemon?

Nope not yet. They are taking their time to give me a fully considered response apparently. I have also asked EHRC if they are concerned about this misinterpretation of the law and GG’s duties under it. They are also considering their response. For example, this bit: Where organisations decide to adopt trans inclusive policies and practices, the needs of all members or service users have to be considered in any particular case means that GG can’t have a blanket policy regarding trans inclusion as in each case all members needs must be considered. This also means that the policy of not telling parents is on legally shaky ground as this means that parents would be unable to make their child’s needs known in any particular case. Not having paragraphs is awful so I’ll stop there.