How was trans ever added onto LGB ?

[SirVixofVixHall]

Reading some of the schools advice on trans from Allsorts, it occurred to me that the only way transactivist propaganda has been so successful is because it has piggybacked in on gay and lesbian rights literature. Alone, it sounds so unhinged that it would never have gained traction. On the end of LGB it sounds respectable, it gets shedloads if funding, and it makes people feel automatically more accepting.

For schools, who very much want to support pupils and stop bullying, the trans stuff added on is very clever. It means they don’t question the agenda. Yet trans is nothing like LGB, it isn’t a sexual orientation, it has more in common with a religion. It actively undermines homosexuality. I know that some lesbians have been calling this out for some time, but there seem very few gay men. I don’t understand why ? The gay male friends I’ve had in the last were very vocal and certainly would not take kindly to being told they are bigots if they won’t shag vagina people. Is it because it is a women’s rights issue? It doesn’t affect them so they don’t care ? Why was trans ever added to LGB, is that through Stonewall ?

It's interesting to me because you never hear (or at least I don't) trans men trying to control men. But constantly I feel like there are news stories of trans women fighting to be included in women only spaces. Trans men don't seem to share that sense of entitlement.

This is AspieAndProud’s good example, It's when a smaller political movement infiltrates a larger one and takes it over from the inside.

Since clown fish have become popular with those who appear to believe that humans can change sex, I offer yet another marine creature to represent their political aspirations.

*Cymothoa exigua, or the tongue-eating louse, is a parasitic isopod of the family Cymothoidae. This parasite enters fish through the gills, and then attaches itself to the fish's tongue. [...]

The parasite severs the blood vessels in the fish's tongue, causing the tongue to fall off. It then attaches itself to the stub of what was once its tongue and becomes the fish's new tongue.*

LGBTQP+D (digging) - that one's really tickled me.

This thread, about Ruth Hunt and Stonewall is relevant

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3366278-Ruth-Hunt-Stonewall-CEO

We need more gay men speaking up about this. They are a powerful group and I can’t believe they are all accepting trans ideology that would have future gay teens transition. I think, along with a lot of people, they just don’t realise the extent of what is happening. I keep wanting to bring it up with my gay friends but I don’t see them very often and haven’t found the right time recently (birthday parties, etc).

Why is poly-diodah not bisexual then? Why is the 'meh I can't really be bothered with sex really' be included (who would know? Where's the social injustice?).

So many letters...

There are a lot of gay people who are also trans so no it doesn't undemine homomsexuality OP and as a homosexual man who is now trans it still doesn't undermine me, there are lots of gay/bi trans out there. While I agree to the no place in woman's only spaces I will stand up and say yes we do belong in the LGB movement

Sheila Jeffrey’s covers the history of it in this talk.

It’s enlightening, to say the least:

a homosexual man who is now trans

When words are emptied of real meanings nobody can understand anything any more.

Does this statement mean
"A same sex attracted male who calls himself a transwoman"? So, confusingly, a gay man that wants others to agree he is a woman who likes men, thus, straight, and not, "a homosexual man" as per the original statement?

Or does it mean
A straight woman, who wants to be recognised as a gay man, in which case the "who is now trans" seems to undermine what goes before?

I'm sure I'm not the only one to read that and think, what?

Can you be clearer longtimelurkingtrans please?
I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say.

From my understanding it is perfectly clear, I'm a homosexual man who is now trans, which is basically sex sex attraction as I'm sure you are well aware that transwomen are not women and I can not lay claim to being a straight woman.
Even once my HRT is complete and GRS I will still be a biological male/trans woman and not an actual woman.
I hope this is clearer for you.

I can't find it but i recently read a timeline of homosexuality that detailed its history, concentrating on changes over the last 70 years from a criminal offence to same-sex marriage.

Very detailed timeline here: www.theweek.co.uk/87213/a-timeline-of-gay-rights-in-the-uk

The pay-off for any updated timeline is:

2018 Homosexuality declared #transphobic

Thank you AspieAndProud. Entryism is exactly how they operate.

Feminist groups
Feminist publications
Women's rights
Liberal feminism
Intersectional feminism
Women's resources
LGB groups
Unions
Political parties

Shit this is so depressing I am going to stop listing, but it seems that now every thing for women or LGB is now totally centred around trans. The entryism within all of these things must have been pretty strategic and co-ordinated.

I remember years ago when you had those 'sex positive' pimp feminists. It really did seem to come out of the blue when all these newcomers would chide people for not including transwomen in every fucking sentence. They did indeed spread like a virus. They were also the same ones who would talk about 'safe spaces for sexworkers'. - As though every other woman lets strange men park their dicks in her intimate orifices for money. Yes, a lot of women have been involved in the sex industry at some point, but this was totally disproportional and was clearly coming from the sex industry profiteers - entryism - taking over feminism from the inside- re-branding sexual exploitation as an empowering choice for young women at around the time Sweden made buying sex illegal. These 'feminists' already started no-platforming feminists and calling them 'problematic' because they may make 'sex workers' feel 'unsafe'.

Soon after the pimps entered, it was all about 'trans' this and 'trans' that. I could never see what this had to do with feminism, but lots of these pomo feminists were on the case policing everyone to talk their pomo crap.

It was all queer theory shite shite shite. The emperors new clothes. Incomprehensible word salad that people would pretend they understood, because 'only clever people can see this fabric'. I can be pretty crude and careless when denouncing utter bollocks, and I remember a respectable radfem warning me to sh! when I was ranting about the utter shit of queer theory out in public.

That's what is so great about Sheila Jeffreys' writing isn't it? It is very plain language so you can actually understand what she is saying, and she can afford to be clear because she isn't trying to hide something, like logical inconsistency.

Why all these pomos get taken in by pretentious word salad irritates me beyond belief.

LongTime, I understood what you meant. But you're already included in LGB by virtue of being a male attracted to males. What reason is there to add the T so prominently, (so prominently now that it practically wipes out the others.)?

The T bit doesn't belong with the LGB. The T is a mental condition, not a sexual orientation.

To be fair, some trans sexuals, drag artists and 'gender benders' did used to come under the gay 'umbrella' and there was some cross over with gay culture, so I can see why the groups became connected . Thats probably less relevant today as gay culture becomes more mainstream. It doesn't account for AGPs, hetrosexual cross dressers or the violent TRA contingent though.

They are also still shamelessly using gay rights and the threat of being seen as bigoted as a way to force people into believing things that are not true.

'Remember way back when, when people were so disgusted that two consenting adults of the same sex might simply be attracted to each other, even though it never affected anyone else apart from the two adults in question? You don't want to be seen like those people do you? You don't want to be...... On the wrong side of history, do you? Good..... Now... Repeat after us... '

Gaslighting at its finest.

"Feminist groups
Feminist publications
Women's rights
Liberal feminism
Intersectional feminism
Women's resources
LGB groups
Unions
Political parties"

To add

Orgs set up specifically for girls

Girl Guides places transgirls over girls in importance

Also orgs that involve women / girls taking their clothes off
Swim England
British Gymnastics

Both persuaded (inflltrated?) to change policy to say that anyone who says they are a girl / woman needs to be allowed into the changing rooms >> often communal and changing involves knickers off.

Thanks for clarifying longtimelurkingtrans. I don't know your backstory so couldn't know what these words mean to you. And I'm aware that another trans person would use those exact words and mean the complete opposite to you.

But once again, although we now have a mutual understanding and consensus on the words homosexual and man, I'm left wondering what the word trans means to you. Because from your post it seems to be synonymous with surgery and hrt, but NOT identity, not sex and not gender. Almost just gay man with body dysmorphia.

I appreciate your honesty, and it seems easier to discuss this with someone who uses mutually agreed terms.
But the word 'trans' now seems a complete misnomer. Is there a transition from male to female, man to woman? It seems we both agree not.

Does it make sense to perpetuate the idea of trans this way?

Thanks for the interesting posts.
Longtimelurker I also don’t understand why you would add the T when homosexuality is covered by LGB and the trans element is something entirely different. I can’t imagine any other form of body dysmorphia being added on, and the T has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
My personal feeling is that the LGB organisations have been infiltrated because activists know full well that to the vast majority of people trans = homosexual male. Eg old school transsexual. So they have piggybacked fetishists, cross dressers etc onto this without the general public being aware.
I was reading an interview with Anna Friel this morning for her new drama, yet again the trans movement is compared to the gay rights movement (amongst a lot of other typical Mermaids influenced stuff such as “puberty blockers are a totally harmless pause button” etc).
When I talk to people about women’s rights vs transactivism, every single person has brought up gay rights and thinks this is the same situation. Yet this is more like a religious infiltration. I really find the wording of the Allsorts literature incredibly sinister and disturbing, why is it not being questioned by every single school head ? I can only assume they also think it is a gay/lesbian issue.

I am all for gender non conformity, and have always supported gay rights. To me this is glaringly different, essentially its opposite, and yet so many people don’t think that, and I’m curious as to why not.

Wheredowebegin - I agree, strategic and co-ordinated. Trojan horse.

And how does 'Queer' fit into the alphabet soup? Why dont they just add D for Drag whilst they are at it, or P for pissed (as in 'I only fancy it when I'm drunk')?

Barracker Sorry was a bit touchy earlier on, I've been getting stick elsewhere for being gay male and trans and if I actually belong in their group as such'
Trans is a misnomer to me but at this moment in time it's the only word I can think of to describe myself as when I'm presenting in public people just see a transexual and not a gay guy. I am an old school transexual and tend to lurk and blend into the background as best I can. I no longer feel I can and this is down to the certain people claiming twaw or demand access to all women's areas, A perfect example is shopping I would have the assistant at hand for advice (shoulder hiding etc) and buy and try at home, But now with all this publicity and not the good kind either that has changed and I feel like some sort of pervert and get strange looks when shopping now,
So in a way I'm both g & t and if I want things to improve I must now be visible and stand against the TRA madness and be vocal in making sure I don't get erased from the G in the LGB when and if it drops the T.

Ok, I understand much better, thanks.

This is not for me to say really, but your stance seems a pragmatic 'place-holding' one, and that makes sense to me. For as long as the trans dialogue continues, calling yourself trans ensures you still get a seat at the table and a voice that can counter the TWAW stuff.

But in the future when all this seems like a bad dream you might no longer need the label, and can just be a gay man who lives his life the way that suits him, without infringing upon women?

Does that sound close?

One last question, feel free to decline to answer.
If you are male, and attracted to other men, and they are also attracted to other men, don't you worry that the more you change your physical characteristics, the less you are likely to be found attractive to other gay men?

Barracker You are right most gay men in my experience do not tend to be attracted to men who look or dress in women's clothing or makeups,
I know I have drastically reduced the dating pool pool by coming out and being the way I am. As it stands it seems that it's bi guys who are now attracted but this also comes with risks, will save for another thread from the sissy fetish crowd etc as some people can't distinguish their online porn fantasies from real life people.

Longtimelurker - one of the concerns I have about transactivism as it now stands, the madness of accepting Ian Huntley etc as transgender, is that the comparatively tiny number of old school transsexuals, who are essentially very feminine presenting gay men, will suffer as well as women.