What then?

[tobee]

If the changes to the GRA go through, what then?

Are there things in place to try and get a repeal?

I've got a feeling the public at large will only really know about the issue properly when it's too late. I'm sure I'm not the only one who worries about this.

Hoping others know what could be done in that event.

Off the top of my head:

We'd have to campaign for specialist sex-offenders' units in women's prisons, separate from the rest of the prison population.

Single room accommodation in closed psychiatric wards.

Do a lot of stuff by stealth - e.g. women's DV refuges which were genuinely women only, but operated by word-of-mouth (which would of course put yet another barrier in the path of women fleeing DV).

Campaign for safe unisex facilities, e.g. changing villages with floor-to-ceiling cubicles so mobile phones couldn't be shoved underneath partitions.

It would all be very, very expensive, so nothing would be done and women would just be quietly shafted. Less women doing keep fit, less women in sport, women in prison having an even shittier time than they do at present, women failing to seek help for mental health issues...

So I'm totally delusional thinking it could be repealed? In the reasonable near future? Clinging on to hope. What am I talking about? Reasonable!

The prison authorities seem to have the sense not to put a woman in a male prison. So what would happen if every women in prison self-identified as a man? Would they be segregated by gender from the self-identifying women who have come in from the men's prison?

Personally I fully intend to self-id as a man. Depending on whether DH wants to become gay or not, he may identify as a woman. For as often as the new rules allow we could flip-flop between a civil partnership and a heterosexual marriage.

The admin costs would be high for the Government for all the continual changes to birth & marriage certificates, driving licences and so on. The cost to me would be minimal as I would be one of the oppressed so could not be expected to be financially impacted. Imagine if millions of us did it?

Betsy I too have been thinking about iding as a man. Actually I wish I'd thought of it years ago. If DH doesn't want to be a gay man he knows where the spare room is

A few more and we'll have ourselves a movement. Then we can start campaigning for men's rights. Or maybe we won't have to as it seems okay to have men only spaces.

Betsy's you are my hero

If we become men then surely everyone will just do what we say.

I'm a lawyer and will waive my Stat Dec fee for any of the stunning and brave women of mumsnet who identify as men if self identification comes on.

TerfedOff thank you darling wow I think I'm getting the hang of this man stuff

Thank you TerfedOff though you may live to regret that. Busy and poor.

Yes, IDing as a man has presented itself to me as a solution too.

If the women's showers and changing rooms are going to be thrown open to any bloke with a dodgy agenda to enjoy himself and the expectation that any women there are to be used freely, whether for validation or active entertainment, then the only people left in the men's changing rooms will be the decent blokes and I'd feel a hell of a lot safer around them.

Hopefully, enough of those men won't like it and moan to the service provider, and I bet no one mentions gulags to them.

Thinking about it further, having seen this morning a screenshot of someone nicely explaining to a gc woman that if she said she didn't have a gender then she couldn't be a woman (presumably someone would come and remove her womaning licence or something) because woman meant embracing and performing the feminine gender.

Maybe those of us not up for being good girls, getting obediently showered, toileted, smear tested and changed with naked men and liking it, and not up for performing femininity properly, need to come up with some exciting and insane name for a 'gender' we plan to embrace ( one where the gender is defined by having female biology and ignoring all gender stereotypes. People of this gender have consent or boundaries that cannot be violated and no unwanted penises can enter their space in situations of privacy and vulnerability) and then all identify into it. We can then insist our gender choice is respected in room allocations, groups specific to this gender, toileting provision that includes this gender, etc.

At least that provides all biological women with a choice.

Quick question: If you identify as vegan, does the NHS have to put your eggs in storage?

...I'll get my coat...

A women schism in effect.

Gender defiant: the state of being biologically female but unable to conform to any gender stereotypes. I can wear a prom dress and simultaneously kick men in the bollocks. I demand pockets in my clothes, equal salary and nice cushions.

Oh. Perhaps I'm Buffy

Do I get a place on the list now?

Oooh I forgot the pockets! Obviously the pockets!

gender defiant- I like it
how to differentiate from those who are gender defiant but produce small, mobile gametes?

Your Plan is ace. However I can’t bring myself to let go of my woman name.

how to differentiate from those who are gender defiant but produce small, mobile gametes?

They'll have to come up with a name for themselves. Part of being gender defiant is not doing all the goddamn work for mobile gametes persons. It's good for them to redefine their bandwidth.

Went to my first loo today that has a communal men and women sink area and no sinks at all in the women's. Felt dead sorry for the students.

However I can’t bring myself to let go of my woman name.

Who says you have to? The ManFriday chap changed to a male driving licence but kept her name and even the title Ms.

I have already decided that I will be id-ing as a man.

I will be quite happy to use the men's facilities because I suspect that all the men I would need to be protected from will be in the ladies'.

There used to be a burger restaurant in my town that had a loo door marked women and one marked men. On going inside there were a couple of cubicles and you then washed at some sinks. Then you suddenly realised it wasn't a mirror behind the basins but you were, in fact, looking straight at the men's basins etc and, you could in fact "pass through" to the men's side. It used to seem quite amusing to see the shock on the face of the first timer. Oh how we laughed at the novelty.