US teaching hospitals are allowing medical students to perform pelvic exams on unconscious, unconsenting women? [Edited by MNHQ]

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

And it's perfectly legal in most states.

This is in America, not, as far as I know, in the UK. But I'm completely gobsmacked and really upset. I don't understand how this is allowed.

bust.com/feminism/195099-public-exams-anesthesia.html

" Did you know that doctors and med students are allowed to practice pelvic exams on patients who they are under anesthesia for unrelated surgeries? Did you know that they do not need to ask first, or let them know after if it happened?

I first heard about this phenomenon on the Throwing Shade podcast when Erin Gibson, author of the new book Feminasty, brought it up as her women's topic of the week. Erin read a report from the NYU Ethics Division detailing this ongoing practicing and continued to rant about how gross it is. I immediately started asking my friends if they knew about it. The responses to whether or not they knew was mixed, but the responses of disgust were consistent. I started doing further research and found that this practice is shockingly widespread.

It is very common for teaching hospitals around the world to have med students “practice” performing pelvic exams on a surgical patient while they are under anesthesia without their consent, or even knowledge. According to Medscape, oftentimes, multiple med students will practice on the same patient. In the US, non-consensual pelvic exams are legal in every state besides Hawaii, California, Illinois, and Virginia.

Phoebe Friesen, a medical researcher, published an article called "Educational Pelvic Exams On Anesthetized Women: Why Consent Matters" in which she studied the phenomenon. She noted that in 2005, a study at University of Oklahoma “found that a large majority of medical students had given pelvic exams to gynecologic surgery patients who were under anesthesia, and that in nearly three quarters of these cases the women had not consented to the exam.” She also states that “the vast majority (72–100%) of women say they expect to be specifically consented for an educational pelvic exam performed while they are under anesthesia” and that many women “said they would feel ‘physically assaulted’ if not consented.”

According to Medscape, a 2007 study done in Canada found that 72 percent of med students admitted to having done a pelvic exam on an anesthetized patient. A common argument for these non-consensual pelvis exams made by doctors is that many patients would say no—which is really a further reason for why they should be asking. If patients are not willing to be used as test subjects, medical school should hire people to practice on who are informed and willing.

Lauren Dobson-Hughes, an activist and former president of Planned Parenthood, wrote a thread on Twitter about this epidemic. She said that after there was media coverage about this happening, many people came forward about unexplained internal bruising and vaginal pain after undergoing an unrelated surgery. She heard anecdotally from many others saying their demands for their own medical records had been blocked or redacted as hospitals attempt to cover up their rape-y practices.

In 2013, writer Tasneem published a personal essay on XOJane about how she suspected this had happened to her but she has no way of knowing. She double checked the fine print in what she signed before her surgery to make sure she had not unknowingly agreed to it but there was nothing. She writes, “Why wouldn’t they just ask me if they could try it out while I was conscious, I wondered? I am a sexual health activist, and I’d love to help people get better at giving pelvic exams!” She called her doctor to ask him directly and, “he responded brusquely that he does so many surgeries that he could not say for sure whether or not it had happened.” She then asked if it is something he’s done in the past with medical students and he said yes. She filed for an investigation with the patient advocacy center of the hospital, but she never heard back.

This widespread use of patients' bodies is intwined in the sexual assault epidemic we are seeing rise to the surface with the #MeToo movement. It is a further assumption that any body that is not cis and male is open for invasive practice without question. If you live in a state where this is legal, which is very likely since that includes 46, pressure your legislatures to change that."

Livid.

Anyhow I am getting off this thread, it's not healthy for me to dwell on this stuff, but it does overall reinforce my impression that a lot of hcp think it wasn't that bad.....

This is fucking disgusting, and surely they could be convicted of sexual assault? You would hope so anyway, as if a woman fell unconscious outside of a medical setting and someone started poking around up there then it would be a clear cut case. Not sure why this would be any different.

I’ve experienced some shocking treatment at the hands of doctors, particularly gynae. Not just the one I mentioned earlier, but one so awful that I struggle to talk about - the nurse actually came to find me after that procedure because I was so hysterical and told me I should make a complaint.

And like I said, I’ve had six gynae surgeries and I’m 99% sure that those surgeries involved having some kind of instrument capable of moving my uterus inserted vaginally, despite the fact ive been consented for that type of surgery six times and no one has ever mentioned this aspect of it.

But I honestly don’t believe that in the NHS they do vaginal exams in non-gynae surgery. And the only reason I believe that is because even related specialities are completely incapable of communicating or arranging anything like this (for example my son had an MRI due to a vision issue, they told me that it would be good to examine his eyes while he was under anaesthetic but they couldn’t even manage to arrange that).

It says a lot that this is the only reason I don’t believe it. Not because it’s unethical or wrong but because they can’t be arsed.

But nonconsensual vaginal exams and instrumental procedures during gynae surgeries when a woman is already in position? I’d bet good money it’s still happening, especially as I’m pretty sure this has happened to me SIX BLOODY TIMES.

No man who wants to be a gynaecologist should actually be allowed to. There is something epically creepy about a man who wants to spend his entire career rummaging around in women's hoohahs.

I won't see male gynos. If anyone has an issue with that, too bad, still not going to.

There is something epically creepy about a man who wants to spend his entire career rummaging around in women's hoohahs.

But you could say the same thing about colo-rectal specialists. We think about ourselves from the outside, but I'm pretty sure that most specialists think of us the other way around - the working bits inside.

Apart from that, un-consented rooting around is sexual assault.

Fucks sake, that is sexual assault

Fwend I’m glad you are reporting it. I started training in 1997 and it absolutely was not acceptable practice then. In fact we were told to report anyone who suggested it to the medical school. They made it very clear we would be kicked out if we took part ourselves (and rightly so, IMO).

Whoever assaulted you KNEW they were doing wrong. I don’t know whether you were “examined” or just flat out assaulted, but either way the person doing it would have known what they were doing was wrong. There would have been repercussions at the time, and there would certainly be repercussions now (GMC/prison time level repercussions) if you can prove who it was.

It has always been illegal, people just cared less in the 1980s. I cannot imagine it happening now, even if you had one rogue doctor the rest of the team would not stand for it.