LibDem lgbT Twitter thread on women’s prisons

[BlardyBlar]

Discovered this thread on Twitter. It is filled with claims that seem, at best, disingenuous. They post that the biggest source of sexual violence in women’s prisons comes from other women.

twitter.com/lgbtld/status/1042796152515710977?s=21

They quote the Howard League as a source.

howardleague.org

haven’t read all the information yet, but there seems to be little concrete information to base the claims made in the Twitter thread.

For example, vis-a-vis the numbers, the Howard League details in its report, “Women in Prison: Coercive and consensual sex, Briefing paper 2” that:

6. Sexual assaults in prison
According to NOMS, there were six recorded sexual assaults in women’s prisons in 2012

If that is the case, then Karen White alone comes close to matching that number.

Interesting reading and important to check the sources quoted. The report is ALL about how vulnerable women are. How anyone could read it and conclude Transwomen should be moved there is just impossible for me to understand.

Disingenuous is putting it mildly. No-one denies that some women housed in prisons are violent - that's why they're in there, often.

But using that as an excuse for putting dangerous sex offenders in along with vulnerable women is evil.

It's akin to saying 'school all have bullies, so let's not bother doing any safeguarding to prevent paedophiles getting in there.'

Strawman, again. Their logic says some women commit sexual assaults in prison, so chucking a few rapists and paedophiles in there makes no difference. It’s like saying oh well, there’s already a problem with drugs in prison, we might as well just get some spice in on monthly bulk order.

The people complaining about trans women in female prisons have said nothing about this to our knowledge. It’s as if they don’t actually care about sexual violence unless trans women are involved.

Yes, that's right these feminists. Never talk about sexual violence AT ALL, never established women's refuges, never campaigned on domestic violence, reform of the treatment of rape victims in the legal system.
Feminists never did any of that. Not sure who did mind. Maybe it was the men.

Disingenuous is putting it mildly

I was being polite!

According to a tweet by Anne Ruzylo’s calculations, numbers of female prisoners are so low, that if all TWs in the male estate were moved, there would be five for each prison.

And they have an entire public thread stating we are being unreasonable and don’t care about the women affected.

They post that the biggest source of sexual violence in women’s prisons comes from other women.

But if TWAW then isn’t that a bit of a meaningless statement?

Transwomen with GRCs are recorded simply as ‘women’ for statistical purposes.
Karen Lawson, who raped the shop assistant at the Trans-specialist clothes store being one of them.

This is another reason why we are opposed to the legal fiction of the of the GRC, it makes data gathering pointless.

Transwomen with GRCs are recorded simply as ‘women’ for statistical purposes.
Karen Lawson, who raped the shop assistant at the Trans-specialist clothes store being one of them.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3370661-2009-case-of-a-judge-ordering-an-intact-male-rapist-into-a-female-prison-because-he-had-a-GRC

Not sure if it’s been mentioned elsewhere (I can’t keep up) but I saw it mentioned on Twitter yesterday that it is a human right that women should be imprisoned separately from men. Surely there needs to be a test case? Presumably this is why that is still enforced in Ireland.

P.14 “Women prisoners shall be detained separately from male prisoners.104”

www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/training11Add3en.pdf

Blimey it’s almost like the oppression Olympics comes first with the I-must-declare-all-of-my-political-lobbying-charitable-and-knowledge-base-before-saying-anything Olympics running a close second.

Talk about disingenuous!
Women commit all kinds of crimes (although violent and sexual crimes in far lower numbers than men) that’s why they are in prison. No one here is suggesting women prisoners turn into Disney characters once inside.

It is incredibly authoritarian to suggest women cannot campaign on a single issue unless they also campaign about another issue.

I’m also certain that a number of women on here campaign about issues in women’s prisons and have done for many years. I know this because we have done it together, offline and online.

If they want to go this route, it’s kind of strange that they don’t care or campaign about male bodies being locked in prisons work female bodies.

P.14 “Women prisoners shall be detained separately from male prisoners.104”

The way language is used here is exactly why TW need themselves to be seen as women, because this is how they (think) they can (disingenuously) claim meet the conditions.

And the switiching away from transsexual to the more ambiguous and assailable gender.

It is all about manipulation and twisting of facts - much like a smart arse child does to try to find some loophole in the rules thinking they are being clever and will get to stay up later, but with the malignancy of male domination/entitlement/misogyny/personality disorder. And the underlying threat that they can exercise power or violence - or can't stop themselves.

Pushing, pushing, pushing. It is why the answer must always be to say No. These are the facts, these are the rules. Your disordered thinking may struggle to accept it but...... tough fucking shit. Get some treatment.

If the wording said FEMALE prisoners must not be housed with MALE prisoners, then they would have to find a way to be classed as female, not just women.

On the various threads around this topic on FWR and elsewhere in MN, we've discussed the number of male Prison Officers who are involved in sexual relationships, coercive sex, assaults and more with women prisoners.

The facts are distributed around various documents and reports. I, however, suspect there's a reason why that Twitter thread lacks links.

We've had a number of discussions about the reasons why issues with trans prisoners are exposing just why the justice and prison systems need an extensive overhaul.

You’re right seafret. The agenda is clear. That is why the argument has gone from “we want to be treated as women” to “we are women”. It’s why the TWAW rhetoric is pushed so hard.

On Twitter, I often quote the wonderful Mumsnet statement by DonkeySkin about those who push the rhetoric being liars. All the arguments that try to blur the definition, all the demands for proof that women will be harmed, all the accusations about tar brushes are a massive smokescreen.

Human rights protections are in place for women and this movement is designed to subvert those protections.

I have some figures here.

I was given them by Anne Ruzylo a former prison officer and feminist campaigner. She also mentioned something very interesting which was that it was difficult to assess the true number of sexual assaults in on the female estate because women's vaginas act as 'prison purses' where drugs and contraband are stored.

Thanks DJ, though I can’t see the figures clearly in that image (which may be due to my eyesight or the size of my screen).

The “prison purses” thing is referred to on the Twitter thread. When I read the Howard League report, it crossed my mind that even if it involved accessing the vagina, and awful though it is, this is not at all the same as a sexual attack with all its overtones.

They're desperate. They know that women and girls being locked up with rapists and pedophiles is a public wake-up call about the safeguarding risks of self ID, and of the GRA in general.

You’re right seafret. The agenda is clear. That is why the argument has gone from “we want to be treated as women” to “we are women”. It’s why the TWAW rhetoric is pushed so hard.

Sarah Brown who (I understand) is one of the four people who operate the LibDem LGBT+ Twitter account also strongly asserts that she is female.

Sue Pascoe (potential Conservative candidate and Channel 4 Inclusion advisor) also asserted on Sky News that she was female.

The shift is now to 'we are female'

Yes it does not have the same hallmarks as a sexual assault. Having never experienced such an assault I cannot say if it feels any different I am sure it is incredibly traumatic. No one should have to go through that. However it is not rape. It is assault and theft.

More stats. I pull these out whenever some douche starts the 'women are equally rapey in jail' shit

Howard League of relevant items and reports, conducted with Commission on Sex in Prison:

howardleague.org/?s=sexual+violence+in+prisons

howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Sex-in-prison-web.pdf

There are reports on men in prisons with the same topics.

Women in Prison: Coercive and consensual sex

howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Women_in_prison_sex_commission.pdf

Coercive Sex in Prison 2016

howardleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Coercive-sex-in-prison.pdf

Women in Prison organisation:

www.womeninprison.org.uk

It would be very helpful if the Twitter thread in question provided links to facilitate fact checking for what are, otherwise, just assertions.

Thank you for posting DonkeySkin's post. It is absolutely right. None of this should be up for debate. I think I will copy it to my desktop.

We have been overrun with personality disordered people. Somehow they have got hold of the keys to the castle - we have to get them back.

Makes me wonder if the Twin Towers attacks struck a bigger blow than we realised as although so mcuh was going on before, a lot of this got so much worse (more mad) since then. Not least because so many people were distracted.

Standing back for a moment, maybe it is a means of population control. The failure of big urbanised civilisation - hedonism, narcissim, POMO, 'high functioning' sociopaths masquerading as intellectuals.. it all turns in on society and poof. We will never be able to reproduce if transwomen are female. FFS, some humans are too stupid.

Obviously male narcissists/ sociopaths etc have the unencumbered grandiosity etc to aim high and wide and network so well, such is their sense of entitlement and lack of boundaries and respect for others.

Women are generally kept tied to the immediacy (and sometimes isolation) of kids and cooking and caring, even when we are big picture thinkers by nature. Comes back to that rule of men hating women talking doesn't it.