Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why does this feel ick?

23 replies

cornflakegirl · 20/09/2018 10:25

I'm a long time lurked in this section, but very infrequent poster. A friend of mine posted an article that made me feel uncomfortable but I'm having trouble articulating why. There are so many people here who are brilliant at cutting to the quick of a problem, so I'm hoping you can help me formulate an argument. Unless I'm being unreasonable in feeling ick about it.

cosplay.kotaku.com/how-one-male-cosplayer-became-mai-shiranui-1829161435?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 20/09/2018 10:32

Because it's a bloke, wearing a woman's "skin" - albeit latex.

LangCleg · 20/09/2018 10:34

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

dinosaurkisses · 20/09/2018 10:34

Because it’s a man overexagerrating the female form and wearing the result as a costume.

Once he’s got the attention (and maybe harassment that a woman would be likely to get) he can take it off again and carry on life as a man.

UpstartCrow · 20/09/2018 10:34

I'm not clicking that, but if you google 'uncanny valley' it explains why it feels off.
We rely on pattern recognition to make sense of the world and make everyday decisions. Things that don't quite fit the pattern are more unsettling than those that obviously do or don't, as we can't make a decision on them.

stillathing · 20/09/2018 10:35

our society still struggles to see sexism. replace woman with a different category of minority or oppressed person and it might help you understand your feelings better.

stillathing · 20/09/2018 10:38

aha uncanny valley explains why i can't stand lego friends people and much prefer the original funny headed yellow dudes!

cornflakegirl · 20/09/2018 11:08

I hadn't come across uncanny valley before - thank you. Would you say then that it's just that the source is a computer game character that makes it weird?

I don't think it's just the women's skin thing - I've never felt weird about eg Madame Doubtfire.

I'm getting challenged about how it's different from drag - with the implication / assertion that it is homophobic to object to drag.

OP posts:
cornflakegirl · 20/09/2018 11:14

stillathing - I think I'm struggling to see exactly where I think the sexism is. Is it just in the original games character - the reduction of a woman to boobs and arse? Is it the guy's comments about how strong and empowered he feels dressing up as this character? Or is it something more fundamental about the appropriation of womanhood? I don't think it's the last one, but I'm not sure.

OP posts:
TheCuriousMonkey · 20/09/2018 11:25

I've never felt weird about eg Madame Doubtfire.

Mrs Doubtfire was obviously still Robin Williams. The cinema audience knew that. The joke was that the family couldn't see it, despite it being obvious. I haven't seen the film for years but IIRC the narrative is very similar to other stories where a character disguises or hides themselves in order for others to be able to "see" the real person underneath the costume (a bit like Cyrano de Bergerac).

Plus Mrs Doubtfire was an affectionate portrayal of a woman, not a sexualised stereotype of what a man thinks a woman "should" be like.

I do find drag a bit difficult, but again I think there is a qualitative difference where a male performer dresses up as a woman and tells jokes.

On the homophobia thing, homophobia is hatred of someone because they are gay/lesbian. Unease with a man wearing a woman's "skin", making himself into a grossly sexualised stereotype of a woman, has got nothing to do with his sexuality. We don't even know his sexuality.

Plus - Silence of the Lambs.

Datun · 20/09/2018 11:31

From the link, it's because he was banging on about boobies and it looks like a fetish, to me.

Even if he's not got an all out fetish, he obviously finds it thrill.

Because it is objectifying women. The thrill is in the objectification. It simply wouldn't work if he was disguising himself as a middle-aged woman. People wouldn't feel the same sense of unease.

Mrs Doubtfire didn't objectify anything.

You're experiencing the perception that it's a sex based act. Or a power-based act.

And given women are objectified on the basis of their sex, and have no power, you're feeling the unease.

Juells · 20/09/2018 11:32

with the implication / assertion that it is homophobic to object to drag.

Drag is a disgusting parody of women. HTH.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 20/09/2018 11:36

Are you familiar with cosplay in general?
Most of the characters are ridiculous for various reasons and the handiwork required to build the costumes is amazing.
I'm not familiar with the character he's portraying - it does seem over sexualised in a way many cosplay characters aren't.
And he does seem to be fetishising it.

Juells · 20/09/2018 11:38

cosplay.kotaku.com/how-one-male-cosplayer-became-mai-shiranui-1829161435?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

That's so obviously a fetish. The photos of him making mew faces at himself in the mirror tell the tale.

The dress hoicked up to reveal the arse! Reminds me of those pathetic fetishistic men who dress as dolls.

AngryAttackKittens · 20/09/2018 11:41

AGP, the geek version.

In the photo looking back over his shoulder (don't smite me MNHQ, this one doesn't claim to be a woman) his face looks super masculine, which just makes the bum and thigh padding look sillier.

cornflakegirl · 20/09/2018 12:00

Datun - thank you, you have cut right to it, as usual.

deydodo - no, I have very little experience of cosplay. I can see that an amazing level of skill went into the costume, and I think that was why my friend posted the link.

But yeah, it does feel a bit too close to AGP for comfort. Not that I have any experience of AGP apart from what I've read on these boards.

OP posts:
Turph · 20/09/2018 12:13

I think that's an amazing bit of work. I don't understand cosplay or gamers or anime or obsession with all things Japanese at all, but the guy made an impressive costume with what he had. I know a set designer and the amount of work that goes into sets, wardrobe, makeup, prostheses, is incredible.
He might be an AGP but my 2p is that his obsession is with the character and with costume making. Surely an AGP wouldn't have made the boobs hollow with a storage area in them? It doesn't sound very sexual to me.

Turph · 20/09/2018 12:18

yuk
And
<a class="break-all" href="https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLONDE-AND-BEAUTIFUL-WOMAN-HEAD-MASK-SEXY-LADY-FANCY-DRESS/401496631986?ul_ref=rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=2&toolid=10044&campid=5338268676&customid=8d0bd3c7-60cf-449f-ad3b-353bf181b32b&lgeo=1&vectorid=229508&item=401496631986&srcrot=710-53481-19255-0&rvr_id=1674703554634&rvr_ts=f6b281761650aa42df7469c3fff318f2&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">double yuk
I saw a documentary on men who wore latex masks and looked like 6'4" rubber dolls. Can't find the link. But that was disturbing.

AngryAttackKittens · 20/09/2018 12:19

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07F2CZY3V/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21

Is it supposed to look like the wearer is going to murder you in your sleep?

AspieAndProud · 20/09/2018 12:48

It rubs the lotion on its skin
Or else it gets the hose again...

OldCrone · 20/09/2018 14:15

Like Aspie and Monkey, my first thought was Silence of the Lambs. A film they wouldn't be able to make now.

AngryAttackKittens · 20/09/2018 14:18

Since you mentioned it...

feministing.com/2016/03/10/my-auntie-buffalo-bill-the-unavoidable-transmisogyny-of-silence-of-the-lambs/

(In the entire history of "are you fucking serious?" TRA articles this may be the most jaw dropping.)

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2018 15:12

It's a favourite of mine!

DukeOfSussex · 21/09/2018 15:27

Because it's an objectified woman's form that an actual woman couldn't have and then stuck in a bikini to show off her arse for weird guys at a convention.

Her tiddies are also nearly ready to be pulled out of the mould. So a proper test can be done soon!!!.

Envy

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread